The only reason would be to pander to the court of public opinion as an impetus for China to set in.
I am afraid I have become more cynical in my old age.
We all get more cynical with age I believe.
But I think the Chinese Gov. would like for this thing to just go away by itself and not spread to other cities in the Pearl River Delta, the other provinces along the south coast, there most of the inhabitants of HK originate from, or beyond…
The LAST thing they would do was to go in heavy handed to give their self-proclaimed “adversaries” any more to criticize them for.
Of course if this goes totally out of hand they’ll have to apply a bit of force, but it will not be allowed to escalate to a new Tiananmen Square.
The Chinese are not stupid enough to give anybody an excuse to send in troops to “help establishing freedom and democracy in Hong Kong”. (Actually to divert attention from their domestic problems)
Nor are they suicidal enough to attack any foreign forces that doesn’t directly threaten the security of China (incl. HK).
Maybe it isn’t as simple as “all of HK supports anti-China protests and the mob”.
Are there a silent but intimidated majority that would rather live in peace and maintain good relations with the Government in Beijing, which is also their Government, whether that is understood by a lot of people in the west or not?
This article in SCMP appears to indicate that is the reality:
I don’t know of any place in the world were everybody agreed 100% with everything that their Government does, but they do not normally express their disagreement by rioting and destroying property, although it is becoming all to common lately.
In this case there are two Governments, the local Government in SAR Hong Kong, which bear the brunt of the protest, and the central Government in Beijing that is trying their damndest to stay out of the fray, at least for now.
Any outside meddling and encouragement for the mob can only make the situation worse.
Nothing is simple in this mess. Now Taiwan does not want the suspected murderer to give himself up voluntarily. He has to be legally extradited from HK to Taiwan, which he cannot be because there is no extradition treaty between the two:
Since both entities are not recognized as independent countries, how can there be any treaties between them, other than as parts of China??
Now HK reject offer from Taiwan to send police officers to collect the suspect since Taiwan has no law enforcement power in HK:
What a mess this has become. Maybe China can come in to mediate??
It now also appears that the sources quoted by Trump official bashing China is based on a fictional character in a book published in 2011:
Are anybody surprised??
what, cant he just fly over and give himself up?
Common myth that you need extradition agreement to extradite someone, no, that just means you have a legal framework to be extradited.
Unless your constitution says you cant be extradited like France not sure about HK?
It is TAIWAN that doesn’t want him to just give himself up, not HK that stop him from doing so.
The reasons for this all have to do with the status of both Taiwan and HK. None of them are independent countries.
HK is a Chinese city and does not have a Constitution, only the Basic Law and an agreement between Britain and PRC that give it a special status for 50 years from 1997. There is also the SAR status granted by China, but that still only cover it’s status within China.
Taiwan Gov. is officially the Government of the Republic of China, which includes all of China, including the island of Formosa AND HK.
Unfortunately for Taiwan Gov. nobody recognize it’s authority in China, or the independence of Taiwan. It is officially seen as a self-governing province of China, although unofficially many maintain some sort of relation with it.
What have this got to do with a alleged murderer giving himself up voluntarily you may ask? Actually very little, but it got a lot to do with the relations between Taiwan, HK and China. To long and too complex to discuss here, but there are several articles available that does try to do so in simple terms.
The US administration is not meddling in other countries affairs are they?. Not at all, they are just trying to help China to become a better place by backing up rioters that is destroying their home city:
Has it actually got anything to do with HK, or China, or is it just an attempt to get the attention at home away from their domestic problems?
China bashing is popular among their followers, what easier way to gain popularity? (Oldest trick in the political playbook)
Who care that the majority of the HK population is not in favour of this kind of behaviour and would like to go about their daily life without fare of being beaten up by thugs, or being hindered in going about their city by what used to be one of the cleanest, safest and most punctual metro system in the world.
I’m amazed that the Central Government has tolerated this level of violence and disruption for so long, without making any move to intervene.
The only explanation must be that they don’t want to give their adversaries and the western media any reason to criticize them for being heavy handed, much as they would love to.
I now think that until and unless the HK Gov. ask for help, they will hold back.
To mistake that as weakness, or to kowtow to western pressure, would be another misreading of the Chinese ability to act, if they are force to.
The large lawful and peaceful protests of a couple of months ago is now no more. That was about the proposed extradition treaty with China and Taiwan, which has now been buried and gone,
There is no majority in HK for independence, or for the present destructive riots that is costing HK a lot in terms economy and of standing in the financial, trading and shipping world.
Tourism may not be a major business in the overall scheme of things, but affects shopping and it employ a lot of people.What is felt more is the lack of mainland shoppers that do not want to come to HK in the numbers they used to. Some because they are scared of being hounded by a mob, but many more as a protest against the “spoiled brats” in HK that doesn’t know how good they have it and is not old enough to remember living under British colonial rules.
Those who visited HK in the 1960s and 70s may remember the poverty and riots then.
It improved a lot after 1984, when it was agreed that HK would be returned to China in 1997, when the 99 year lease on New Territory expired. (A major part of what in SAR HK today)
The Brits suddenly gave a lot more freedom, but democracy was not one of them. Members of LEGCO was selected by various business groups, or appointed by the Governour, but corruption was cleaned up and more local people put in position of power in the Colonial Administration, the judiciary and the Police, but key positions where still held by British or Commonwealth citizens.
I worked in HK for a few months in 1972 and did not feel any oppression, but that MAY have been because of the “colour of my skin” and a salary to match.
Spending a lot of time in Aberdeen, where I was looking after a small landing craft under construction on a small yard on the Ap Lei Chau side of the harbour. This being long before the bridge was built , I was dependent to taking sampans to get to the yard and back. I got to see the living conditions on the hundreds of junks in the harbour and tenements in Aberdeen village. It was not very shocking for me at the time maybe, since I had just spent 3 months as Ass. Port Captain in Chittagong, Bangladesh, and had learnt to “grow calluses on my heart”, as I was advised to do by a veteran “war chasing” NGO worker.
I hope, as the Chinese leadership evidently do, that the situation in HK will blow over soon and that nobody gets killed before that happen.
Bad for the China bashers, but good for HK, China and the rest of the world.
If it was really that case that the proposed extradition treaty was the ONLY thing in play, then (as you say), why haven’t the protesters gone back to their lives in this supposed utopia? Did you ever stop to think that the proposed treaty was just the final straw that has opened these protests? That perhaps “the polls” show that a majority of HK’ers don’t support independence but in fact people do support it but are afraid to voice that opinion due to the police state that is today’s China? Why do you just assume that everybody is happy living under the thumb of this dictatorship?
You have a very simplistic view of the world; USA = GOOD China = BAD
Capitalism = GOOD. Everybody live in freedom and get RICH.
Communism = Socialism. Socialism BAD, keeps people in poverty and control the means of production.
HK is nominally under Chinese control, but with the “One country, two systems” agreement HK is in large parts self-governing within certain limits. China is responsible for defence and foreign relations, but on the last, HK Gov. is given quite a bit of leeway.
Maybe you should try to understand what is written. The majority HAS gone back to their normal lives and do not support the rioters that is rampaging in the street, fighting pitched battles with the police, nor do they support independence for HK.
Like HK itself being divided in three part; the original colony on Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and New Territory, which is the largest part, so is the population.
The large majority support more democratic governance, but within the present SAR arrangement.
The second largest group is pro-Beijing and would like to have more direct rule from there sooner rather than later. This is not likely to be the case, even in 2047 when the present agreement ends. There are many Autonomous or semi-autonomous regions in China and HK is likely to remain one of those.
A very small group is advocating HK independence, which is an utopia and can NEVER become reality. Most of these are young hotheads that didn’t know hardship under colonial rule and think they can copy Singapore.
Both China, Taiwan and HK are Confucian societies at the core, no matter which imported political system has been adopted, or force upon them, for a very short period of time in a Chinese context. Until and unless you understand that, you’ll never understand China.
China is not too impressed with Mr. Pence’s speech:
How would the US react if a high Chinese official made a speech in support of Trump’s impeachment, or took official side in the upcoming 2020 election??
No it will not happen, just a hypothetical question.
Yes there are still people living in poverty in China, as there are in many so called rich country, incl. the self-proclaimed “richest country in the world”.
At least the Chinese Government is trying to do something about it, with a plan to eradicate abject poverty within the next 5-year plan. So far 800 Mill. have been so.
Having created an estimated 400 Mill. people to the middle class status in 30 or so years is not bad, but whether that can continue is left to be seen, given the US attempt to stop China from growing in wealth and influence in the world:
Personally I don’t think that will succeed, unless the present rivalry move from economical and political to a military confrontation, which will bring everybody down.
Would this be allowed to go on in any US or Western cities?:
I am not being critical of China’s efforts to better their peoples lot. Unfortunately the marginalized have few options. Like the few that win the lottery cause more people to buy tickets. The few that smuggled folks that “make it” cause others to give it a try. Or maybe they hope their kids will have a better chance.
The first time I was in mainland China was 1978 in Dalian. We were the first US ship there since the revolution. Everyone was still dressed in their Mao outfits and riding bicycles. At times it was…surreal.
You have probably been back in China and Dalian since and seen the changes there. I have visited Dalian many toms the last 30 or so years and the changes in that place, not just in infrastructure and buildings, but in the way people are dressed and their way of meeting foreigners has also changed immensely.
I’m not to enthusiastic about the almost total eradication of the old Russian buildings and feel of the place earlier though.
As to the sad event in the UK and the death of 39 Chinese national, there is a long article about it in the SCMP today:
huh, not seen the News from Paris in the last few months basically for the same reason.
Hwo did they stop it, huge government concessions although just delaying the total bankruptcy a few more years but anyway…
ahhh but there inlies the rub…“within certain limits”…I think the good people of HK aren’t quite as happy with those “limits” as you seem to believe. Also, the 3 groups you described (Pro-current SAR arrangement, Pro-Beijing, and Pro-independence) might not be as clear cut as you describe. How would we know who supports what? Is there a way for HKers to openly and freely express their beliefs about how they would like their future to play out without fear of draconian repercussions? Is it not within the realm of possibility that the desire to have VERY BASIC freedoms like the speech, assembly, religion, etc. just might appeal the HKers? I know, I know…you’re going to tell me that they “already have those freedoms”. (-within certain limits). Plus, don’t you think they’re looking down the road to 2047? What happens then? No one knows for sure, least of which the HKers whose future is in the balance.
Your view of the world is also quite simple: CHINA (aka, the motherland) = AMAZING, anything ANTI-US = EVEN BETTER
BTW, I’m still waiting for a direct answer as to how you justify unlimited outside (US) intervention in one region where a minority is seeking freedom and a land of their own (Syria/Kurds), but are staunchly ANTI outside (US) intervention in another region where a minority is seeking freedom and a land of their own (HK).
With your stated hatred of hypocrisy (despite displaying it CONSTANTLY), I figured you would enthusiastically defend your reasoning.
You have no understanding of what is happening in HK, or in China for that matter,
Read something other than US propaganda and you MAY learn something about the outside world.
HK Gov is prepared to consider a commission of enquiry into police conduct: