The Future of Short Sea Shipping in the U.S.?

Professional Mariner Forum
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[QUOTE=“c.captain;108549”]Maritime Highway vessels should be modern, fast LNG powered Ro/Ro’s and not cellular containerships plus they should carry the tractors and drivers along with the trailers. This is very common in Europe especially in cross Baltic, North Sea and Med routes.

Drive on one end, run up/down coast, dock and drive off other end as soon as ramp is down. The whole name of the game in this kind of trade is speed of service. 2 hours at a dock is too long! Eliminate the crane operators and all the other ILA stevedore slugs. The terminals should also all be brand new and designed for easy and fast marshalling. Northbound for Boston over there, southbound for Jax over there, etc… Just line up and wait for the next ship to arrive in 12 hours which is about the schedule you would need…2 ships a day in each direction. Locate these terminals not in the traditional port areas but on an outskirts with all new direct connections to the freeways in the area. Yes, the docks will be unionized but the positions on them will not be paid like the container docks. Too bad if the ILA doesn’t like that but welcome to the new 21st century you land crawling gastopods. Remember, new docks new contracts!

In the end it is really a ferry service we are talking about and streamlining is what would be critical for any such service to be a success.[/QUOTE]

The problem is how do you get truck drivers, who are paid per mile, to get onboard with this?

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Pay them a small portion of their normal rate to kick back and rest/sleep while the ferry transits. They will make more money in the end. Put some truckstop girls onboard and a slot parlor…

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[QUOTE=z-drive;108562]Pay them a small portion of their normal rate to kick back and rest/sleep while the ferry transits. They will make more money in the end. Put some truckstop girls onboard and a slot parlor…[/QUOTE]

why a small portion? Pay them the regular per mile which is already too low in most cases. Of course, if the rate includes fuel, then deduct fuel from the miles at sea since the truck ain’t burning anhy. As fuel prices climb in decades to come, just that difference will offset the fee to use the ship. Remember, for this to work, the service must move the absolute maximum number of trailers in the shortest period. It has to eventually end up taking less time and money to move a trailer by sea that by road or rail and that means efficiency, low costs and speed. Of course, adding government incentives to use such a service would be wonderful too…especially in the early years.

Make it so the shippers want to date the gal and eventually fall in love with her and marry!

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108560]The problem is how do you get truck drivers, who are paid per mile, to get onboard with this?[/QUOTE]

The DOT would most likely make them have their hours of service clock still ticking all of the time that they are onboard. Which would lead to them being either, short on time to complete the run or be put out of service as soon as they land. Now if DOT would let them count the time spent on the vessel as rest time then maybe the trucking companies would jump onboard as the rig would still be moving even though the drive is “Resting”.

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[QUOTE=“Tugs;108568”]

The DOT would most likely make them have their hours of service clock still ticking all of the time that they are onboard. Which would lead to them being either, short on time to complete the run or be put out of service as soon as they land. Now if DOT would let them count the time spent on the vessel as rest time then maybe the trucking companies would jump onboard as the rig would still be moving even though the drive is “Resting”.[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn’t it be resting? The driver could be eating, relaxing, sleeping, etc. It’s not like they would drive onboard then navigate the ship to the next port.

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Perhaps short sea shipping could better make their case with, dare I say it, environmentalists who are distraught over all the truck pollution around ports. See Washington Post article http://wapo.st/ZQ1oq4. And the new DOT secretary has a concept of “intermodal” transportation as they made a big deal out of his Charlotte intermodal work with the ports…

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Yessah C.captain, as i understand it owner/operators charge whatever rate for miles which including labor, fuel, wear and tear, capital investment (truck); to make it financially work for customers it shouldn’t cost more than it would over the road. No truck specific fuel burn on the boat ride, no wear/tear, and all that crap would be applicable on that leg thus the reduced rate.

Think of the savings in wear/tear on roads, congestion, that stuff. I could see legs between say like a norfolk-philly-ny-boston/providence. Only thing would be the day and a half or so steaming assuming 20kts…about half as long over the road. How long are the transits in europe?

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I’m pretty sure truckers get paid per mile and get reimbursed for fuel and tolls on top of that. It’s not rolled in their mileage rate.

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[QUOTE=Tugs;108568]The DOT would most likely make them have their hours of service clock still ticking all of the time that they are onboard. Which would lead to them being either, short on time to complete the run or be put out of service as soon as they land. Now if DOT would let them count the time spent on the vessel as rest time then maybe the trucking companies would jump onboard as the rig would still be moving even though the drive is “Resting”.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the US will follow the EU style rules:

http://www.transportsfriend.org/hours/rest.html#ferry

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108582]I’m pretty sure truckers get paid per mile and get reimbursed for fuel and tolls on top of that. It’s not rolled in their mileage rate.[/QUOTE]

Owner Operators get paid per mile, they might get a little bit of a fuel surcharge but usually it is per the mile and that is usually zip code mileage which is less than actually driven mileage.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108573]Why wouldn’t it be resting? The driver could be eating, relaxing, sleeping, etc. It’s not like they would drive onboard then navigate the ship to the next port.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I should have said that they would be OFF DUTY as per DOT regulations.

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[QUOTE=Tugs;108568]The DOT would most likely make them have their hours of service clock still ticking all of the time that they are onboard. Which would lead to them being either, short on time to complete the run or be put out of service as soon as they land. Now if DOT would let them count the time spent on the vessel as rest time then maybe the trucking companies would jump onboard as the rig would still be moving even though the drive is “Resting”.[/QUOTE]

The DOT hours of service rules have been in court for over a decade trying to make everyone happy, the Teamsters have lawsuits againts the current rules now, because they don’t like them. The ATA, PATT, OOIDA, and a mojority of the large truck carriers are all suing each other as we speak over this mess.

I have alot of family members that drive, so I get to hear these arguments at the dinner table all the time. One of the big complaints against the current H.O.S. (logbook) rules is they have no flexibility.

You are only allowed 11 hours of driving time, or 14 hours of on duty time not driving, which ever comes first, after that you have to have 10 consecutive hours of off time, 8 of which has to be sleeper berth, and it can not be split up, in anyway.

Drivers are only allowed 70 hours of on duty time per week, then they have to have a 34 hour restart. Meaning they have to be parked for 34 consecutive hours, Also no flexibilty either. The dispatcher calls you to go 2 miles down the road to swap a trailer with another driver and you just violated the 34 hour restart.

To get truck drivers on board they would have to get paid standby time or something for the time sitting which would in my opinion would have to be by the hour or trip, or else they will probably want nothing to do with it. All of this will have to fit there log book rules very closley or they will want nothing to do with it either.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108582]I’m pretty sure truckers get paid per mile and get reimbursed for fuel and tolls on top of that. It’s not rolled in their mileage rate.[/QUOTE]

Tugs said it pretty close, most get paid by the mile, the fuel is included in the milage pay not extra, some do get a fuel surcharge but not all. It depends on the carrier and the contract. Tolls, permits, scales, and most other things are only paid for as extras maybe 50% of the time. That is what seperates good owner operators from the ones that wind up gong bankrupt is knowing how to price there business. All these extra’s have to be added into a haul before you agree to it. If not you will get screwed.

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I don’t see why the time on the ferry wouldn’t count as rest. They could even get sleep time but the ship would either need to provide power hookups for cab AC or sleeping accommodations for the drivers.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108589]I don’t see why the time on the ferry wouldn’t count as rest. They could even get sleep time but the ship would either need to provide power hookups for cab AC or sleeping accommodations for the drivers.[/QUOTE]

There is no real reason why is shouldn’t, however the ship schedule’s are going to have to be very well timed. Most truck driver’s are not going to sit at a port waiting on a ship for 12 hours voluntary. A decent driver can be 750 miles down the road in that 12 hours they just sat and waited. There will have to be incinitives for them to wait or most of the drivers I know won’t do it.

One big difference here as opposed to Europe is they have to transit between country’s and everytime a truck crosses into a different country he has to stop and get cleared. This going up and down the East coast would not have that problem. Most drivers can make it from Jacksonville to New York in less than 2 days. Then if you talk about team drivers you can cut that in half

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Yeah, I can’t imagine the truckers would be a fan of this plan but economy of scale makes it cheaper to send one ship than 5,000 trucks from Jacksonville to New York.

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[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;108594]Yeah, I can’t imagine the truckers would be a fan of this plan but economy of scale makes it cheaper to send one ship than 5,000 trucks from Jacksonville to New York.[/QUOTE]

Some of the larger truck carriers would probably welcome it, because they will figure out a way to make money off it. The independant owner operators, personally I don’t think they will be to crazy about the idea. they will need to be given some incentives to even consider it.

The teamsters and there highly paid for politicans I can just about guarantee will fight this to the last dying breath. Especially when you get closer to the North East which is one of there strong holds. Because this is taking money directly out of there pockets, with every truck and trailer that gets taken off the road.

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Just found this image by accident and thought it was hilariously appropriate.

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As for the intermodal transport, I whole heartedly agree, and it seems that so too do many others. Just a few minutes worth of Googling revealed a number of different articles from many different sources, stretching across a wide spectrum of society, all with different vested interests in the success of short sea shipping. MARAD, at least in word if not in action, has looked at great length into developing a highly functional system within the country. We all know them for the dysfunctional neanderthals that they are, especially their fearless leader, “Shogun” Matsuda, but at least we can say that this is not a topic that they have all together ignored.

It is clear to me that there is motivation to get both short sea shipping and intermodal transportation off the drawing board and into the water. It would be good for our industry, which means good for us individually, good for national security, good for the nation as a whole, and I think in the long run, good for the individual consumer. If this is to be taken as the truth, based on the evidence of the many positive things that have been both written and said about short sea shipping and intermodal transport, what then, I ask, must be done to turn words into action?

I do not accept that nothing can be done because we’re just poor, powerless merchant mariners and the crooks in Washington don’t care so all we can do is shrug it off and keep going like we have been. That’s not good enough. This industry has long waved the banner of “Find a way or make one!”. We work hard, tough, sick, tired, dirty, broken, busted up, on holidays, through hurricanes, and on what was suppose to be vacation time, we do what we have to get the job done. We make the impossible possible, we do things on a daily basis in this industry that only decades ago would have seemed like extraterrestrial technology, and still today might seem alien or herculean to the average land-lubber who has no idea what we do.

If we can do all that, how can we give up on securing the positive future of our industry? Is it not our responsibility to speak out, against all odds, and in the face of any opposition, whether it be the ILA, the Teamsters, David Matsuda, or Barak Obama? It is time for this country put its Merchant Marine back at center stage and it is the sacred duty of each and every one of us to contribute, in whatever way we can, to that sea change. Make no mistake gentlemen, we are standing at a cross roads. To one side there is prosperity and riches for all of us, the nation over, and to the other side is a deep, dark precipice. The choice or ours, and the worst thing we can do is be indifferent to it.

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Very eloquently put.

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Do you know for all the more than $800B that went into the Iraq War (remember Iraq?) and its supposed rebuilding, the entire US transportation infrastructure could have been completely rebuilt to 21st century standards. The government literally could have built the ships and the terminals that are required to have a Maritime Highway and all that would be needed for revenue would be to cover the labor, fuel, operation and maintenance of the vessels and terminals. We’d right now have at least a dozen ships running on a clockwork schedule up and down the Eastern seaboard. Probably could have had the whole kit and kaboddle up and running for $35B. Think of all the jobs created to build the ships, the terminals and to operate the whole thing? Thousands upon thousands!

Now, because we are broke, It’ll never happen…STOOPID FUCKING COUNTRY!