Hi all , Just wondering if anyone can steer me in the right direction…Does anyone have new info on the new ATB for Mcallister to move containers from NY to ME. I found some EMD duel fuel stuff ,But not a whole lot. Like to see whats in store for the engine room. I know that there will be 4 DF EMDs, and 2 DF EMD gens. Thanks
[QUOTE=CETOOT70;134216]Hi all , Just wondering if anyone can steer me in the right direction…Does anyone have new info on the new ATB for Mcallister to move containers from NY to ME. I found some EMD duel fuel stuff ,But not a whole lot. Like to see whats in store for the engine room. I know that there will be 4 DF EMDs, and 2 DF EMD gens. Thanks[/QUOTE]
Ditto. Super cool project, would love to know more. I heard they cut steal on it recently, no idea where it’s being built though. Anybody got the inside story? Someone on here has to work there, right?
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;134218]Ditto. Super cool project, would love to know more. I heard they cut steal on it recently, no idea where it’s being built though. Anybody got the inside story? Someone on here has to work there, right?[/QUOTE]
Like to see how the EMDs perform with LPG. The will run on anything ,and always take you home ,lol
Yeah , Should be someone on here that works around it. Maybe its top secret. Well hopfully there wont be any rags and welding rods in the full tanks after ship yard lol. I could image there well be alot of bugs to work out.
The LNG fuel tanks are in the barge. Now they just need to shift the wheel house and the engine room.
Yeah, I thought that was pretty dumb as well…
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;134236]Yeah, I thought that was pretty dumb as well…[/QUOTE]
It’s good to see it’s being done and I hope it’s a success for lots of reasons. I just would like to see vessels built based more on practical day to day use and less on capital and labor cost due to regulations.
This does inadvertently open up that tug /deep-sea divide which is a separate issue.
but they say nothing about a contract to build this
By Bruce Buls, 12/1/2013
Ocean Tug & Barge Engineering Corp. is designing the world’s first LNG-powered ATB. The new high-speed 1,056-TEU ATB container carrier is for Minyan Marine LLC, Houston.
Minyan Marine is planning to operate the Jones Act ATB between the Gulf Coast and the East and West coasts, according to Milford, Mass.-based OT&BE, which has designed many Jones Act ATB petroleum carriers.
Bob Hill, president of OT&BE, has been a long-time advocate of ATB designs for other applications, including offshore energy service. Now container-carrying ATBs are starting to gain momentum. OT&BE is also designing a new ATB for McAllister Towing & Transportation for hauling containers out of Portland, Maine, as part of the New England Marine Highway Expansion Project. The Maritime Administration chose the project three years ago as one of eight to compete for future federal funding, including $7 million in initial capital. The goal of the design project was to look at a full range of vessels for the coastwise trade.
The LNG-fueled ATBs will carry both containerized cargo as well as oversized loads. It is based on OT&BE’s Rapid-class ATB design with a 15-knot speed. The design was developed jointly with Taisei Engineering of Japan, creators of the Articouple ATB connection system. Model testing has been completed and vessel design is now being finalized.
The ATB’s containers will be held in place by cell guides with vertical guide rails that eliminate lashing.
The diesel/gas-electric tug will be powered by four dual-fuel EMD DGB 12-710 variable-speed main generator sets. The barge will have a pair of 8-cylinder EMD gensets of the same design. In addition, each vessel will have smaller diesel-fueled generators to provide hotel power in port. The EMD gensets will power two 6,000-hp electric propulsion motors. The barge will have a 2,000-hp electric bowthruster. EcoMarine Propulsion Systems, an OT&BE subsidiary, will provide the propulsion drive system.
Hill said the electric-drive system offers fuel savings, emissions reductions and is crew friendly. “You will not need specially trained people to run and maintain this system,” he said.
The LNG fuel tanks will be located on the barge adjacent to the notch and will be connected to the tug’s engine room by a proprietary gas fuel transfer system developed by Argent MarineCompanies, Incline Village, Nev.
Even so, the tug will be able to operate out of the notch with diesel fuel. “No compromises were made in the design that would preclude her being able to operate without restriction when away from her barge,” said Hill. “This is not some sort of compromise design created to get added speed.”
I checked Tim Colton’s site and see no mention at all for a contract with any US yard…I think since the bankruptcy of that other coastwise line (forget name) that was running between the US and Canada, nobody will be able to get financing.
My problem with the concept is that by putting the fuel tanks on the barge there is an incentive to close the ATB “loophole” because the tug is not independent without the barge. I think this container ATB would be much, much better off without LNG involved. Also, I’m not 100% sure the Minyan LNG-ATB is the same thing is the McAllister container ATB, is it?
Two totally different projects.
American feeder lines I think was the last one to try and do Halifax/Portland/Boston…Whenever i ran into it i never saw the thing with a single box on deck. Good idea but good luck.
If short sea shipping has any chance in this country I would think it would be through some sort of use of ATB’s or some other version of tugs and barges. Of course you’ll have to get past the threshold of the trucking unions and even the longshore unions are against the idea now (god only knows why with them…) but maybe, just maybe, someday someone like McAllister will actually finish one of these projects and Jones Act ships will have a new niche to fulfill.
It will be interesting to how fuel lines ,or fuel tranfer will be from barge to tug. I would guess the LNG stored on barge would be for capaticy reasons , Tug must have its own F/O tanks that take up space. Ive worked with LPG and have been licened in some parts of it. LPG and LNG are very close in storage. (as far as saftey). Manning will take on a new meaning or knowledge in the duel fuel area. Does anyone know if USCG has been gearing up for next gen of endorcements for this new type of vessels, we shall see
This will need deep pockets or massive subsidies to get rolling. LNG is probably the key to the whole thing working — following the next big rise in diesel prices.
It also requires the right routes with adequate container volume. It’s probably much cheaper to drive a container two hours down the highway from Portland to Boston than it is pay longshoremen to handle it twice. That is the wrong route. NY longshore costs and unpredictable delays make that less attractive than driving down the highway for eight hours. I just don’t see Portland having enough container volume.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;134258]This will need deep pockets or massive subsidies to get rolling. LNG is probably the key to the whole thing working — following the next big rise in diesel prices.
It also requires the right routes with adequate container volume. It’s probably much cheaper to drive a container two hours down the highway from Portland to Boston than it is pay longshoremen to handle it twice. That is the wrong route. NY longshore costs and unpredictable delays make that less attractive than driving down the highway for eight hours. I just don’t see Portland having enough container volume.[/QUOTE]
As it is now , Portland is just starting to talk about opening an area just past Casco Bay Bridge for term. I guess the factor is like hauling oil ,How many units can be moved per cost of moving them.
My take is that an agency builds the barge and the tug operator the compatible boat. A realistic idea would be for Mac to build the tug/barge interface identical to a class of Reinauer ATB. Probably the Ruth/100 class but that’s just a guess as to building it as smart as possible. I’d imagine Senesco builds it, if it happens.
A lot of this would have to do with dredging, if they dig Boston to 47’ the only real need would be to feed Boston/Portland which is pointless I say. A much better use of money would be enhanced rail between Maine and Boston, but unlikely. I can’t see the container traffic there to justify it without the government paying for it. The money in the news that massport is ready to dump into the container terminal there is pretty impressive. Always will be a 2-berth, possibly 3 with expansion, terminal, BUT the big thing is no air-draft restriction unlike NY etc.
Its been proven several times now that the volume just isn’t there. I think if the dredging in boston doesn’t happen to easily accomodate post panamax, then the barge thing is more realistic.
?? One is a gas compressed until liquified at high pressure at ambient temperature, the other is a gas that is cryogenically cooled and stored as a liquid under very low pressure. One gas is heavier than air and the other is lighter than air.
Does anyone know if USCG has been gearing up for next gen of endorcements for this new type of vessels, we shall see
MERPAC has a committe dedicated to assist in the development of CG rules and training requirements. IMO is also working to develop standards and training. There is a lot going on worldwide to facilitate the use of gaseous fuels onboard vessels of all sorts.
Thanks for the info Steamer. They sometimes store LPG in a cold storage to be able fit more product in to tanks.I thought thats why they did the same with LNG. Never work with LNG. Like to get more info on subject
[QUOTE=z-drive;134260]My take is that an agency builds the barge and the tug operator the compatible boat. A realistic idea would be for Mac to build the tug/barge interface identical to a class of Reinauer ATB. Probably the Ruth/100 class but that’s just a guess as to building it as smart as possible. I’d imagine Senesco builds it, if it happens.
A lot of this would have to do with dredging, if they dig Boston to 47’ the only real need would be to feed Boston/Portland which is pointless I say. A much better use of money would be enhanced rail between Maine and Boston, but unlikely. I can’t see the container traffic there to justify it without the government paying for it. The money in the news that massport is ready to dump into the container terminal there is pretty impressive. Always will be a 2-berth, possibly 3 with expansion, terminal, BUT the big thing is no air-draft restriction unlike NY etc.
Its been proven several times now that the volume just isn’t there. I think if the dredging in boston doesn’t happen to easily accomodate post panamax, then the barge thing is more realistic.[/QUOTE]
I agree that Portland lacks sufficient container traffic to support a new tug/barge combo.
Maine would better off putting its federal water transportation money into renewing ferry service to Nova Scotia.
The CAT replaced the BLUENOSE in Bar Harbor, but was hideously expensive to operate. There was not enough traffic to justify it and it lost tons of money. Next, the CAT started running out of Portland too. The Province of Nova Scotia finally yanked its subsidies, and the CAT departed for Aussie.
Portland killed the PRINCE OF FUNDY ferry service that had been running since the 1970s when they gave its berth to the CAT. Stupid move.
Now the area around Yarmouth has had several years of economic collapse and the Province of Nova Scotia is ready to subsidize ferry service again to get the Southshore of Nova Scotia back on its feet.
Maine needs to get together with Nova Scotia and restore ferry service with a newer ship that carries more trucks. No need for a Portland to Halifax barge then.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;134270]I agree that Portland lacks sufficient container traffic to support a new tug/barge combo.
Maine would better off putting its federal water transportation money into renewing ferry service to Nova Scotia.
The CAT replaced the BLUENOSE in Bar Harbor, but was hideously expensive to operate. There was not enough traffic to justify it and it lost tons of money. Next, the CAT started running out of Portland too. The Province of Nova Scotia finally yanked its subsidies, and the CAT departed for Aussie.
Portland killed the PRINCE OF FUNDY ferry service that had been running since the 1970s when they gave its berth to the CAT. Stupid move.
Now the area around Yarmouth has had several years of economic collapse and the Province of Nova Scotia is ready to subsidize ferry service again to get the Southshore of Nova Scotia back on its feet.
Maine needs to get together with Nova Scotia and restore ferry service with a newer ship that carries more trucks. No need for a Portland to Halifax barge then.[/QUOTE]
Have you missed that whole thing where there’s a ferry being fitted out in the far east right now that is due to start service between Portland and Yarmouth this summer?