The 12 and 12


#1

We work the 12 and 12 and have a new crewmember start every 2 weeks. Seeing as we all have about a 7-8 hour drive on crew change day, the night guy ends up being up almost 24 hours before he gets home.

We thought it might be a good idea that you do your first 2 week on nights and then switch to days for your last 2 weeks. This way your just waking up on your last day in time to drive home.

We are trying to figure out a way to make the transition. Has anybody tried this? We would love some suggestions on how to accomplish this.


#2

What about finding a way to make sure you’re awake and fresh for the whole of your first watches when you get to the boat? You can take a nap on the way home, that doesn’t work so well on the boat on watch.


#3

That’s my point, everybody knows they should stop and rest, but some people with get homeitis will continue to push on no matter what. I realize it’s Gods way of throwing chlorine in the Gene pool, but I would like to take the temptation away from my fellow crew members. Crew change is always at noon, so if you got off at midnight on your last day, you would be waking up fresh in time to drive home. The problem is getting someone from the night shift to the day shift… Maybe it can;t be reasonably done, then again, maybe some genius already figured it out and will share the information.


#4

I believe the Coast Guard stated circa 2000 that travel time is “neutral.” Doesn’t that mean that you should be as fresh when you arrive as you were when you started travelling?:confused:


#5

The only real solution is for the guys going to days is to go to sleep at 6am and the guys going home getting up at the same time. Then at noon have crew change with the guys going to days getting up at noon and working their full watch. The only real advantage to this is that the guys coming on get to go to sleep for 12 hours when they get to the boat.

Me personally, I rather work whats ever open when I get on board for my full hitch. I hate switching schedules. When working nights and looking at being up 24 hours for crew change, I just grab a nap on a bench early in the morning, and I keep my pillow in my car when driving home.


#6

Put me down for “I hate switching watches”. My personal preference is to work days one complete hitch and then come back to nights on the next hitch. Hate it when I have to switch in the middle of the hitch… kills me, hopefully, obviously, not yet or soon.

I work around 12 hours out from the crew change and the only thing I ask is don’t make me drive the carry-all when I get there.

If you are managing your peoples time after they leave the boat then maybe your control freak is getting out of control? :wink:

I like where I live and I work my travel time into my schedule and chalk it up to the cost of doing business. If I am on a scheduled crew change then I know exactly what watch I am going to be working and I plan ahead. That is the best piece of mind for myself, no suprises.


#7

This has been an issue on every vessel I have been on .Crew thats already been up 8 to 12 hrs before they even leave home to drive to tranportation center, then 2 to 6 hrs from transportation center to vessel , then work a 12 hr watch.think about it ,some one who has already been up for 18 to 24 hrs coming on board Taking a command position and
working a 12 hr watch ,some where around 8 hrs on watch falling asleep at the helm while your down below in your cabin asleep. Do you want that type of operation?
How about someone who has to work 24 watch.
The system I have found to work the best and promote a safer operation and fair to everyone on board is to rotate from first 2 weeks on days to nights the last 2 weeks .
Crew coming on board goes to bed first 12 hrs for reasons above.Nobody ever shows up at vessel for crew change fully rested.!!!
Example for a 28 -14 hitch 12 hr watches crew change every 2 weeks on Wednesday midnight .you can reverse if for noon crew change.
For crew on day shift that will be on board for another 2 weeks starts rotation 24 hrs before crew change on Tuesday midnight working 8 hr shifts .
Tuesday day shift on duty 1200 hrs -2400 hrs
off duty 2400 hrs - 0800 hrs Wednesday morning
on duty 0800 hrs - 1600 hrs
off duty 1600 hrs - 2400 hrs Wednesday midnight
on duty 0001 hrs - 1200 hrs for next two weeks till next crew change rotation
Crew that will be getting off wednesday night works
Wednesday morning on duty 0001 hrs - 0800 hrs
off duty 0800 hrs - 1600 hrs
on duty 1600 hrs -2400 hrs then off the boat on their way home
Benifits - No one ever works more then a 12 hr shift ,every one gets at lest 8 hrs rest
between shifts during rotation ,no one ever works more then 16 hrs in 24 hr period
during rotation, crew going off boat will not work more then 8 hrs before leaving vessel,
crew going off boat has time too pack gear ,clean cabin ,prepare for vessel hand over at crew change , make phone calls , emails , reports ,able to rest while waiting for crew van . At crew change every bodys awake for vessel hand over , vessel familarization for new crew , improves continuity of vessel operations . on coming crew has time to stow gear ,make up their cabins ,get some sleep and be rested before assuming their duties.
Once you can get the crew working this way they like it . Nobody gets screwed over,
nobody has to work 24 hr watches ,its fair to every one.
Something to think about , Do you want to be the one to sign your name to an accident report and USCG 2682 stating that the person who was injured or killed was on duty for 23 hrs when the accident happened .I don’t !!!


#8

[quote=capt8356;18048]This has been an issue on every vessel I have been on .Crew thats already been up 8 to 12 hrs before they even leave home to drive to tranportation center, then 2 to 6 hrs from transportation center to vessel , then work a 12 hr watch.think about it ,some one who has already been up for 18 to 24 hrs coming on board Taking a command position and
working a 12 hr watch ,some where around 8 hrs on watch falling asleep at the helm while your down below in your cabin asleep. Do you want that type of operation?

no one ever works more then 16 hrs in 24 hr period

Something to think about , Do you want to be the one to sign your name to an accident report and USCG 2682 stating that the person who was injured or killed was on duty for 23 hrs when the accident happened .I don’t !!![/quote]

No, certainly you don’t want that type of operation, but that is a time management problem on the part of your crew. You got a job to do and you know it. Get the proper rest so that you can show up and do your job.

As for no one works more than 16 hrs in a 24 hr period… Or person on duty for 23 hrs. On a 12/12 I never work more than 12 hours in a 24 hour period.

If you want to cut it to exactly the least amount of time so that you can be “fair” then show up at the transportation center at 0000 or what ever the typical watch change is and begin your “watch” at that point. You travel 6 hours to the vessel and you finish your watch at 1200. Rest 12 get up, rinse, and repeat. The person leaving the vessel is on duty from 0000 until your arrival at 0600 and he finishes his “watch” in transit back to the travel center. The watch starting at 1200 has had 6 hrs of rest since his/her arrival.

It just hurts me when I have to switch watches and get my sleep patterns all out of whack. Just a personal preference and I am posting my humble opinion. I have no doubt that there are people that are up for long periods of time and they are operating in a less than a fit for duty state of mind. But I believe that is a personal responsibility issue and you are trying to change the wheel when you just need to train the wheel.


#9

[quote=skycowboy;17979]We work the 12 and 12 and have a new crewmember start every 2 weeks. Seeing as we all have about a 7-8 hour drive on crew change day, the night guy ends up being up almost 24 hours before he gets home.

We thought it might be a good idea that you do your first 2 week on nights and then switch to days for your last 2 weeks. This way your just waking up on your last day in time to drive home.

We are trying to figure out a way to make the transition. Has anybody tried this? We would love some suggestions on how to accomplish this.[/quote]

Rich, The best way to work things out crew change day in regards to watches is to work with each other and volunteer some time to allow a man coming on to get a couple hours nap before coming on watch. So you worked twelve hrs already, you can stand a couple more for the sake of safety and consideration for a fellow ship mate. When I have a new person come onboard that I know needs to get a little rest prior to taking a watch, I will stand his watch for a couple of hrs. be he an A.B., O.S., Oiler, or Mate. It is good and prudent seamanship to sacrifice your time for a good purpose. If he is as considerate as you, he will probably relieve you a couple hours early later in the hitch to repay you for helping him out. It all comes out in the wash. I expect my Engine Department to do the same thing and I have never had a Chief that has disagreed with working with his people for the sake of safety and good seamanship. I’m sure you know that a couple of hrs. nap can do wonders to recharge the batteries enough to stand the last ten hrs of your assigned watch. Changing watches in the middle of the hitch or towards the last of the hitch can be more complicated and detrimental than one realizes. Also I have always told my seamen that any time they feel that they are too tired to stand a proper watch, to wake me up and I will make arrangements for them to get some rest even if I have to stand their watch myself. But I also warn them that if this happens over-often then we need to look at what we can do to discover if some problem exists that needs to be addressed. The point is that crew change lack of sleep can be worked out simply by helping out your fellow shipmates and they will do the same to help you out when your time comes to return to your vessel…


#10

Don’t know how this would fly nowadays but when first confronted with a 12 hour watch [we’d been accustomed to 8 hour watches] and an overseas crew change it was apparent to me I couldn’t have a properly rested watch engineer. I went to the captain and told him that according to the rules as I understood them we were in violation of the CFRs, company policy and common sense. Therefore I intended to inform the company that I would appreciate an overlap of crew change by 8-12 hours, otherwise I felt I was duty bound to notify the proper authorities of the situation in order to reduce my potential liability as head of the engine dept. The captain was fine with that and concurred as he was facing the same problem. The end result was we did get an overlap and though there was overtime pay involved for the company they didn’t complain any more than we expected.