trying to settle a bet and arguement here in ft lauderdale with a few yachties. i just got my medical card back from USCG, ( 2 WEEKS turn around total, good job NMC) and i have full STCW on my masters ticket but vast majority of capts here that go to Bahamas do not. isnt that not allowed? even on private vessels? i thought ANY foriegn voyage requires full STCW, not just the basic training, ( swimming with the stews) class that most have.
thanks for any input.
Good news on the prompt turn around on your medical. Apparently they have heard about the new Dept. of Government Efficiency.
An Oceans license is required on all foreign waters (except Canada). Few people know this. I would bet that most guys making trips to The Bahamas don’t have Oceans. There is no USCG enforcement or Bahamas PSC enforcement of the Oceans requirement, at least I’ve never seen any.
The USCG exempts all vessels under 200 GRT and all fishing vessels from STCW. I’m not sure about private (not charter) yachts. I’ve heard arguments that STCW applies beyond 200 miles of the US, or in foreign waters, but I’ve never heard of any USCG enforcement of it.
I have no idea what The Bahamas actually requires or enforces for STCW. Perhaps there is a Bahamian STCW requirement, but probably no enforcement.
This is one of those situations where you probably just need to go with the flow, and not be a sea lawyer.
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Funny as there is no such department but the thought is nice
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No, it doesn’t. That’s a common misconception, but it’s wrong. See 46 CFR 15.1101(a). The exemption for vessels less than 200 GRT is for vessels engaged exclusively on domestic, near coastal voyages.
If they were exempt, why would there be STCW endorsements for vessels less than 500 GT (200 GRT)? See 46 CFR 11.315 and 11.319, and NVICs 03-18 and 02-18. See also the specific endorsements for small vessels in the Virgin Islands and off the coast of Baja, Mexico.
Always good advice. For anyone.
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thank you sir, i was hoping you would chime in. i have appreciated your proper and expert input on here for many years…
have a great new year and thanks again.
just trying to win a beer in arguement. 99% of the local yachty capts here that go to bahamas forever dont have oceans or full STCW.
That’s because STCW has no enforcement body. If there is a casualty or accident someone may inquire about the yacht captain’s lack of STCW certification but ultimately the liability falls on the owner of the yacht who hired the unqualified captain. If they want to roll the dice and can pay for the liability more power to them
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Try writing in grown up sentences with punctuation, that way us dimwits can figure things out for you.
Also, what the hell is swimming with stews?
“Swimming in the stew” maybe?
PS> Much worse than “Swimming in the Soup”
The STCW basic safety training class that is required to work on yachts, for all crew, is the 5 day class that part of it entails jumping in a pool with the cute stewardesses new to the buisness. lots of people confuse this 5 day basic class with the full STCW endorsements most of us in the commercial world hold. hence the swimming with the stews remark.
double checked for punctuation and spelling, but no promises.
STCW entails a lot more than just safety training courses:
https://www.imo.org/en/ourwork/humanelement/pages/stcw-conv-link.aspx
It is a minimum standard relating to “training, certification and watchkeeping for seafarers”, which countries are obliged to meet or exceed.
PS> Most maritime nations issue Maritime Certificates ONLY per the STCW Code, even for coastal, fishery and pleasure crafts.
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It’s a variation of captain Quint’s toast in the movie Jaws “Here’s to swimmin’ with bowlegged women.”
However, few yacht stewardesses are bowlegged.
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so i think, not sure, but i think the Bahamas has an agreement with this country that recognizes our Near Coastal masters license so that Oceans is not required, but i dont know how that works for our USCG. certainly thousand of NC captains have made hundreds of thousands of trips to Bahamas without Oceans or full STCW. i would have thought if it wasnt right insurance companies would have denied some claims at some point.
In a nutshell, you are correct, a Master must hold the required STCW endorsements for a Master which goes far beyond Basic Training. As far as private vessels, (not for hire) that is open to interpretation by flag and port states (my understanding).
J Cavo answered the remark about STCW application. As a Virgin Islands resident, I can attest to our local exemptions to parts but not all of the STCW code.
The part about any foreign voyage requiring an Ocean license, I have never heard, and doing a quick search of the CFR, I don’t see that. Maybe J Cavo can weigh-in on that? It doesn’t make much sense (and I see nothing in the CFR), for the same reason Cavo sights, then they would not issue STCW certifications for Masters of limited tonnage (like 25, 50, 100) since they would not be able to make and international voyage since they can not get an ocean license.
Look at the definitions of “oceans” and “near coastal” in 46 CFR 10.107:
Oceans means the waters seaward of the Boundary Lines as described in 46 CFR part 7. For the purposes of establishing sea service credit, the waters of the Inside Passage between Puget Sound and Cape Spencer, Alaska, and the inland waters of another country are not considered oceans.
Near-coastal means ocean waters not more than 200 miles offshore from the U.S. and its possessions, except for MMCs endorsed as Operator of Uninspected Passenger Vessel for which near-coastal is limited to waters not more than 100 miles offshore from the U.S. and its possessions. This would also include those near-coastal waters identified by another Administration when the U.S. has entered into a treaty or an agreement with that country respecting the recognition of the U.S. near-coastal endorsement. [emphasis added]
Note that the definition of oceans was relatively recently amended to add the language at the end about inland waters of another country. That was following an appeal where it was argued that service well up the Amazon met the definition of oceans in the CFR.
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Thanks for the reply.
So where would we find a list of treaties or agreements or list of waters identified by another administration that recognized our near coastal endorsement? So far I have only found The Mutual Recognition Agreements pertaining to equipment. If the state department website has this info, it is not easy to find…
I would guess this could only include the Bahamas, Canada, Mexico, and the British Virgin Islands.
Outside of the USA very few private yachts have stcw licensed deck crew
Confusing in the uk as the MCA issue “Yacht” tickets which are not stcw recognised BUT they accept and all red duster flag states for yachts followed.
They did it under pressure to keep the charter industry running.
Just had a buddy try to convert, its 11 months in college to get a real OOW.
It is still STCW certification. STCW is a training standard. STCW is an international convention (treaty) that sets minimum standards for the training, certification, and watchkeeping of seafarers. STCW is not a license and the STCW Convention of the IMO does not issue licenses, it set training standards.
The shortcoming in yachting certification lies (in my opinion) in the ridiculously short sea time requirements for licensing. That is the reason “real” licensing and certification for unlimited tonnage and routes requires additional time for yachties. Different flags, different requirements.
what the MCA have done is make up qualifications and they are not part of the convention as there is no IMO agreement on them.
All done for yachts where the crew have zero commercial time, yachts are 99% outside SOLAS
If the insurance is ok with it then it works