Short sea shipping in the US?


[QUOTE=Bayrunner;195850]Why would you think your post scares me? It’s not like the same crybaby lines have posted by liberals all over the internet. If you want to see fascism look no farther than UC Berkley where the ironically named Antifa group is beating anyone who speaks up against the left.[/QUOTE]

Antifa is a small pack of thugs. Small fry. Seriously. I have no idea why people get all pissy about them. Thought you might be smarter than that.

Trump controls a bigger pack, called Homeland Security, US Military, etc etc.

By the way, flying soon? Get ready to be groped even more than usual. New TSA search regs. Hope you don’t mind a meandering hand around your junk.

Then again, I don’t know anything about your social life, so maybe airport groping is a step up for you activity wise…

On a serious note, you better wake up. Authoritarian crackdowns aren’t just for non-whites. All you lily white fellows are going to end up in the mill sooner or later, and you will not like it one bit.


Would something like this fitt for US short sea & river transport??:


The beginning of short sea shipping in CONUS??:


While US is debating (and resisting?) Short Sea / River trading, China is developing theirs:

As does EU countries:


You continue to miss the key point that has been made over and over. It does not matter where the ships are built, what flag they fly or how lowly the third world villagers are paid, 90 percent of the cost of US short sea shipping is the anti-tech, do it the pre-WWII way, union longshoremen with huge gang sizes and guys with elementary school educations making an average of $140,000 per year. The longshoremen have complete control. This is why trucking is faster and cheaper than short sea shipping in the US.

Someday, there will be no container ports in the US. The container ports will be in Canada and Mexico, and all the containers will enter the US by rail or truck.


That trend is starting already.

Lazaro Cardenas is expanding rapidly as is Prince Rupert The winners wiil be fans of the Sage of Omaha.


No I DO NOT miss the point. Like I said; while China and Europe is modernizing and encouraging Short sea and River Shipping, USA is debating and resisting development.

The Stevedore/Longshoremen scenario is VERY familiar from the UK in the 1960’s and Australia in the 1970’s, which “killed” ports and coastal shipping in those two countries.

I don’t sit in judgment of, or have any agenda here, other than to try to inform on the development in the rest of the world. So don’t shoot the messenger.


Truckers should be making $140,000 a year.


I think you are many things but not that you are naive so it is hard to take the above seriously when you make this statement:

Why even bring up the US when posting links about China and the EU? Of course you have clearly made a judgement and you do have and agenda. Come on don’t deny it. Other wise you would have just said “here is some recent news about short sea shipping”. But no you had to go for the dig.

There is nothing to debate or resist in the US. When and if the economics (based on regulatory environment, trucking industry evolution, highway deterioration) change - then equipment will be brought to bear and serve the need. It is not an industry that will spontaneously come about and grow just because it exists and works in other nations with other circumstances, geography, financial systems, regulatory regimes in place.

Or are you proposing a heavy hand of government intervention to overcome the market forces in play?

Come on, you are just a shit stirrer (excuse my french, fecal stimulator) and I bet you know it. Don’t deny it. Embrace it, that’s the first step to recovery.


I think we ought to take care of paying the enough mariners first.


No I’m not naive enough to think that my posting links to what is going on in China and/or Europe is going to change anything in the US. I do not SIT IN JUDGEMENT of anything, but I most certainly have an opinion about many thing, incl. that Short sea/River Shipping would be right for USA.

Just look at it geographically. You have long coastlines, navigable rivers, canals and Inshore waterways, not to mention far flung territories away from CONUS. All lends itself to a flourishing Short sea/River trade, except that your regulatory environment, the power of the ruling class and certain Unions, holds it back.

Not a heavy hand, but a professional maritime administration, politicians that looks beyond petty political differences, who give most generously towards their next re-election and an Administration that is not beholden to Big Business and the Ultra-rich.

If you feel offended that I, as a foreigner with no direct interest in the matter, bring up the fact that others are doing things differently, I can only say sorry.
No, not because of what I have said, but because the rich and powerful of the ruling class has been able convince even the working stiffs that anything that make THEM richer is good for you.

If you think it is good for the general population that CEOs earns >300 x the average wage and speculators on Wall Street gets rich from shifting monies between accounts in milliseconds, contributing nothing to society, is the right thing for you, you have my sympathy.


Cargo is going to take the route with the cheapest labor. Can either knock the sea route down to shit wages or raise the land route to a decent level.


There are more things than wages that govern overall cost of transport. Efficiency is an obvious factor, as well as convenience.

In places like Europe and China, environmental concerns are now playing a major role, not only economics in it’s rawest sense. In the long run clean but efficient transport will probably prove to be better economically as well.


Striving to the lowest common denominator is a sure way to ruin a society. History has told that story for thousands of years. Eventually the majority get sick of making a very small minority rich and being told they are lucky to have a job. That plus military overreach/colonization has ruined every civilization that went down that path. Romans, British Empire, Soviet Union etc.


Yes, that’s obvious. Cargo taking the path of low wages is hyperbole.


You must’ve graduated at the top of your class.


Nice try old chap. However, that is not what I was suggesting you were being naive about. No - you seem to claiming to be naive regarding the meaning of your posts trying to adopt a “who me” attitude when the s#$@ starts moving after you stir it. What you wrote in that first post was by very definition a judgement. You can have all the opinions you want. Make all the statements you want but you can’t then claim you “don’t sit in judgement or have an agenda”. Pish posh!

Not feeling offended by you calling yourself a foreigner.
Not offended that you have an opinion about short sea shipping in the US.

I’m not aware of any offense but perhaps disappointment in that in this specific case you exhibited intellectually dishonest approach to this posting of links AND THEN cannot admit it.

Here you return to the thread topic but that has nothing to do with my post about your s#@$ stirring does it? You mention a few relevant factors, ignore many more, exhibit ignorance of the navigable river and interstate highway system of the US. Nor do you consider the fall line, the size and make up of the watersheds and dredging and many other items others have brought up in this and other threads. There’s more to it than looking at the pretty blue lines on a map or chart. Then you simply conclude but for a lack of will power the US is deliberately holding down short sea shipping on a larger scale than exists already. Here’s the short story on short sea shipping in the US. There is exactly as much as is demanded and can be delivered profitably.

And now you seem bent on making things worse.

My goodness what does any of that have to do with you stirring s$#@ or short sea shipping. It’s just more s$#@ stirring. Please stop.

Start a new thread for “what I think is wrong with the US”. You’ll have no end of posts I’m sure. You can keep your sympathy.


How did you know???


Because of my superior intellect. I was educated at the finest institution in Norway. I try and exercise my mind by doing calculus in my head while cross country skiing. I refuse to work on any non-Norwegian vessels, I find them to be substandard in every respect. I look upon Americans with great disdain, especially those from the Gulf coast. I go on internet forums and attempt to educate others about the utopia that is Norway.


Good for you. I hope you succeed on that education bit. It’s not easy, I can assure you.

You should try to work on some non-Norwegian vessels, it can be quite educational and an eye opener.
I can recommend mud boats as especially “entertaining”. (If you don’t mind spittle cups standing everywhere)

For myself, I have been so unfortunate not to have worked on Norwegian vessels since 1970, but I try to stay updated on the development as much as I can.

Working in an international setting can also be good for you. You get to experience other ways of doing things and other folk’s point of view.