Sea Time?

I am at the USMMA and working towards a 3/M license. If I submit sea time for a 25/50/100 ton masters license and use it for that license is it invalidated from being used on my unlimited 3/M license when I take that exam in a year?

Also what would be the biggest license I could work towards? I have taken most STCW classes needed for graduation and could get the certificates. Have CPR. Currently have 326 commercial days, does this mean I need additional days towards my 25/50/100 ton?

Once you submit sea time, the NMC keeps it on file to use for future upgrades. I dont know if it would count for that BUT you dont lose sea time once you use it

Are trying to use your cadet time towards a limited masters license? Can you even do that? what does the CFR say? I thought cadet time only counts as like an observer or something. Are planning to sail limited after graduation or do you just want to have it? If you just want to have it its an expensive bauble but your choice.

I thought sea time was sea time up until a 200 GT? I need to read up

Is your 326 ‘commercial’ days on the training ship? or were you working on or other commercial jobs in addition to your school time (including cadet shipping)?

Time from the academy is in a different category than actual employment.

Typically it falls into the C. category. This usually reads: Time at an accredited maritime academy may be substituted for XX days of the required sea time.

If you actually have 326 days, and they are 12 hour days, that actually comes out to 489 8 hour days.(what the USCG counts as a day)! But you have to have the letter worded to reflect that you have stood 12 hour watches and this has to come from the company on letterhead.

[QUOTE=cappy208;33044]Is your 326 ‘commercial’ days on the training ship? or were you working on or other commercial jobs in addition to your school time (including cadet shipping)?

Time from the academy is in a different category than actual employment.

Typically it falls into the C. category. This usually reads: Time at an accredited maritime academy may be substituted for XX days of the required sea time.

If you actually have 326 days, and they are 12 hour days, that actually comes out to 489 8 hour days.(what the USCG counts as a day)! But you have to have the letter worded to reflect that you have stood 12 hour watches and this has to come from the company on letterhead.[/QUOTE]

My commercial time is mainly (310+) on commercial vessels (container ship, MSC ships). The rest is from the academy training vessel and watch standing and bridge watching standing courses. I was employed for those 310 days. I wish they were day and a half like the other schools! I also could record my time from using my personal boats in addition to this according to what I have read. Any more information and/or comments are welcome! I would like to get it to have the endorsement and also the option to run boats part time for companies such as Tow Boat US etc.

See 46 CFR 12.25-25. A USMMA cadet can’t hold an officer endorsement (license) and a rating endorsement as cadet at the same time. If you were issued an officer endorsement (license) your cadet rating would become invalid and would no longer be on your MMC, thus you would not be able to continue at USMMA.

Also, you can’t use time as a cadet observer for a license. Cadet time is not sea time per se. You’re getting a Third Mate license because you completed a Coast Guard approved program, not because you have sufficient sea time. The time on commerical ships is part of your training. Completing an approved program is an altertnative to getting 3 years of sea time.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;33100]See 46 CFR 12.25-25. A USMMA cadet can’t hold an officer endorsement (license) and a rating endorsement as cadet at the same time. If you were issued an officer endorsement (license) your cadet rating would become invalid and would no longer be on your MMC, thus you would not be able to continue at USMMA.

Also, you can’t use time as a cadet observer for a license. Cadet time is not sea time per se. You’re getting a Third Mate license because you completed a Coast Guard approved program, not because you have sufficient sea time. The time on commerical ships is part of your training. Completing an approved program is an altertnative to getting 3 years of sea time.[/QUOTE]

If this were true then why in previous years have midshipmen graduated holding a 100 t masters license before they took the 3/m and 3 AE test? I have seen this done every year. Also I was told today by the director of the waterfront, a license merchant mariner and a grad that when applying for our 3/M license we just have to ask to be evaluated for a 100 t masters and will be given it by the CG.

If this were true then why in previous years have midshipmen graduated holding a 100 t masters license before they took the 3/m and 3 AE test? I have seen this done every year.

Just how many years have you been at Kings Point?

Also I was told today by the director of the waterfront, … when applying for our 3/M license we just have to ask to be evaluated for a 100 t masters and will be given it by the CG.

Midshipman, read what you posted. Your Waterfront Director said when you apply for your 3/M license you can get your 100 ton… NOT you can have your 100 ton while you are are still sailing under a cadet rating on your MMC.

…Also I was told today by the director of the waterfront, a license merchant mariner and a grad…

Are we supposed to be impressed or awed by the fact that you spoke to a licensed merchant mariner and an academy grad? Commander Gasiorek is not the only licensed officer or academy grad… this board is full of them. Just look around.

Lastly, you asked a question on this board and now, when presented with an answer you don’t agree with, are arguing. Its in the CFR, it’s crystal clear, and you’ve presented no argument other then that during your long stint at USMMA you’ve know countless other midshipmen to hold licenses before graduation. Moreover, I tend to trust the words of Mr. Cavo… not only is he a licensed merchant mariner with a decade of service on the water, and a maritime graduate, a law school graduate and an experienced maritime attorney… he also works for the USCG in the credentialing program, and has since you were ten years old.

Here is the CFR in black and white for ya:
[I][B]46 § 12.25-25 Members of Merchant Marine Cadet Corps.[/B]

No ratings other than cadet (deck) or cadet (engine) as appropriate, and lifeboatman shall be shown on a merchant mariner’s document issued to a member of the U.S. Merchant Marine Cadet Corps. The merchant mariner’s document shall also be stamped Valid only while cadet in the U.S. Maritime Administration training program. The merchant mariner’s document thus prepared shall be surrendered upon the holder being certified in any other rating or being issued a license and the rating of cadet (deck) or cadet (engine) shall be omitted from any new merchant mariner’s document issued.
[/I]

To clarify, This means that an older Student who has already received a license has to relinquish it to attend? I am sure this is illuminating to all!

[QUOTE=bensmiata;33112]If this were true then why [B]in previous years[/B] have midshipmen graduated holding a 100 t masters license before they took the 3/m and 3 AE test? I have seen this done every year. Also I was told today by the director of the waterfront, a license merchant mariner and a grad that when applying for our 3/M license we just have to ask to be evaluated for a 100 t masters and will be given it by the CG.[/QUOTE]

This is no longer being done, for the reasons I mentioned. However, under 46 CFR 15.901(a) A third mate can serve as the master on a vessel of less than 100 GRT.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;33120]This is no longer being done, for the reasons I mentioned. However, under 46 CFR 15.901(a) A third mate can serve as the master on a vessel of less than 100 GRT.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, that was the reference I was looking for.

In addition to the points above, the other issue is “will that time be accepted for a Master 100/200” by the NMC? Past REC policy was time over 300 GRT would normally not be applied to the tonnage calculation for a license under 200 GRT. The time would count toward the total time required but you need “sufficient” time on a small vessel to get a limited Master. There is a big difference between running a 500-foot long deep draft steel hull single screw 10000 HP ship and a twin screw 1800 HP 45-foot long shallow draft aluminum crewboat.

We really hated to give a small license to a person with USN aircraft carrier service :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=rwells78;33284]…We really hated to give a small license to a person with USN aircraft carrier service :)[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but at least one RECs did not hesitate to give a 100 ton near coastal license with self-certified sea time on a vessel whose length was listed as 14’ and the manufacturer was noted as “Old Town.” (Old Town makes canoes)

Hopefully when you rewrite the credential regs you will clearly address those kind of issues