RFPNW before aug 1 1998


#1

If you sea time started BEFORE august 1 1998 and you are applying for an original AB Unlimited rating do you still need to do the RFPNW???

according to http://www.stcw.org/training.html the answer is NO
"Unlicensed ratings (O.S., AB’s, QMEDs, deck hands, etc.) whose first day of sea service was before Aug 1, 1998:

  1. Basic Safety Training (BST) – Unless you have been on board a vessel that has a routine training and drill program (good only until Feb 1, 2002), you have to take this 5-day course of instruction. BST is actually 4 courses – Basic Firefighting, Personal Survival, Personal Safety and Social Responsibility, and Elementary First Aid. This course has to be renewed every 5 years."

Any input is appreciated


#2

Mr.100, I interpret it the same way you do…I’ve been kicking around the idea of submitting on that basis…My thought is that you probably would had had to apply for some type of credential before 8/1/98…But what if I assume wrong???

Recency may come into play as well…It shouldn’t because it’s not a license…your thoughts?


#3

I have the same thought as you, that is why I was asking, not sure and can not get a clear answer from the help desk

Does not make since to make you do the RFPNW if you have been on a 300 ton boat for almost a year as an OS. Back in 1996 nobody did the RFPNW so there was no way to document it. i just documented the sea time and want to put in for an AB ticket but it does not make since to get an AB without the RFPNW. That means I would have to go back to working as an OS for 180 8 hour days to get it:eek::eek::eek:


#4

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12460]I have the same thought as you, that is why I was asking, not sure and can not get a clear answer from the help desk

Does not make since to make you do the RFPNW if you have been on a 300 ton boat for almost a year as an OS. Back in 1996 nobody did the RFPNW so there was no way to document it. i just documented the sea time and want to put in for an AB ticket but it does not make since to get an AB without the RFPNW. That means I would have to go back to working as an OS for 180 8 hour days to get it:eek::eek::eek:[/quote]

This has been a pet peeve of mine since I started this whole process…I’m in the process of doing it , and looking for loop holes all the while…:slight_smile:

I went to your link and saw a passage that on Feb 1,2003 “ALL” mariners had to comply with all STCW 95 requirements…This was extended for one year for grandfathered mariners, to complete gap closing requirements…Then it was extended for another year…That’s all it says…Did it finally close? or is it still open? Technically you and I fall under this STCW78…Let’s keep digging…Maybe we’ll get lucky…


#5

when did your seatime start??? and keep me informed as to any progress you make:D:D:D


#6

Shellback
try this one
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/13-02.pdf

what do you think, get back to me if you can


#7

1983, I was in the navigation dept on a Navy ship…lol…Now I can’t even stand a lookout watch by myself…it’s hell getting old !

I found something interesting…All AB 's, Unlimited, Limited and Special all require RFPNW…But AB special OSV, does not…

Let’s say you have AB Special OSV , and later want to test for 3rd unlimited someday…The requirement of holding an AB for 6 months, would this comply with that requirement?

Ya, I’ll keep digging, you have intrigued me … I needed another push…Thanks


#8

I am under the impression that you would not need to do the RFPNW
policy letter 13-02

purpose:this policy letter provides guidanse to the REC about the proper endorsements to be placed on the MMD issued to licensed officers

part 4: discussion
to qualify as a licensed deck officer, a mariner must complete a prescribed amount of sea time, certain training and certain assessments of practical skills. The requirements for the qualification as a deck officer may not provide all of the experience required by the regulations to qualify as an able seaman-unlimited. a review of the requirements for the license listed below show that the overall experience, testing, and assessment are such to warrant an endorsement of "any unlicensed rating in the deck department including able seaman that endorsement should be issued to a deck officer who holds an

  1. masters license valid for service on vessels of not more that 1600 GRT upon oceans or near coastal waters

#9

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12463]Shellback
try this one
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/13-02.pdf

what do you think, get back to me if you can[/quote]

I have been looking all over for this…

I could never get a direct answer, as to why my MMD states…Any unlicensed deck rating,including AB…

I’m going to have to study this and get back to you…Thanks for finding it…

I think the secret to our sucess lys in the “gap closing” requirements…If this hole isn’t completely shut, we have a chance…


#10

here is the strange part, I called NMC and spoke with an evaluator, (not help desk) and she said they do not issue the RFPNW on stcw if you hold an AB UNLIMITED on your MMD as you can not get and AB UNLIMITED without having done the RFPNW.

try telling that to an employer.
I also hold a recent 100-ton master 200 ton mate license.

it does make since that you can not get an AB UNLIMITED, which means any water any tonnage, without doing your RFPNW so why issue the STCW certificate with it then.

MPT web site says the same thing you do about the ab special, limited, unlimited… it is a prerequisite


#11

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12465]I am under the impression that you would not need to do the RFPNW
policy letter 13-02

purpose:this policy letter provides guidanse to the REC about the proper endorsements to be placed on the MMD issued to licensed officers

part 4: discussion
to qualify as a licensed deck officer, a mariner must complete a prescribed amount of sea time, certain training and certain assessments of practical skills. The requirements for the qualification as a deck officer may not provide all of the experience required by the regulations to qualify as an able seaman-unlimited. a review of the requirements for the license listed below show that the overall experience, testing, and assessment are such to warrant an endorsement of "any unlicensed rating in the deck department including able seaman that endorsement should be issued to a deck officer who holds an

  1. masters license valid for service on vessels of not more that 1600 GRT upon oceans or near coastal waters[/quote]

That’s what it says,…" The requirements for the qualification as a deck officer MAY NOT provide all of the experience required by the regulations to qualify as an Able Seaman Unlimited…

I think you just answered our question…

And really I thinks it’s a mute point…If you work up the small to medium size licenses as master, you will already have a pretty good idea about how to steer the boat or you wouldn’t have your 100 ton for very long anyway…lol…

I really wish we could draw some attention to this and get someone in the rule making arena, to look at what the requirements are and how silly they are…I’m not making light of the importance of a proper lookout or a steady hand on the helm, that knows the difference between port from starboard…In my mind a 100 ton master ought to be automatically qualified for RFPNW…I know STCW is all about demonstrating your knowledge in practical assestments, but man, there has got to be a better way than this…


#12

ab unlimited means any tonnage any ocean so why issue the stcw certificate

makes since

maybe mr cavo can help just to be sure,


#13

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12467]here is the strange part, I called NMC and spoke with an evaluator, (not help desk) and she said they do not issue the RFPNW on stcw if you hold an AB UNLIMITED on your MMD as you can not get and AB UNLIMITED without having done the RFPNW.

try telling that to an employer.
I also hold a recent 100-ton master 200 ton mate license.

it does make since that you can not get an AB UNLIMITED, which means any water any tonnage, without doing your RFPNW so why issue the STCW certificate with it then.

MPT web site says the same thing you do about the ab special, limited, unlimited… it is a prerequisite[/quote]

This is crazy…Remember just a few weeks ago Capt_Anony,ous wasn’t going to be able to sail as an AB even though he has 1600 Master…Why? because his STCW endorsement didn’t have 11/4 on it ( RFPNW)…That’s what employers are looking for…He had OICNW and found a passage to show employers…

You are right…Show the employer your MMD and then they will want to see the STCW and guess what…You are an OS in their mind…

I’m working with guys that have RFPNW on their STCW and never submitted in anything more than the 21 assesments…No record of watch keeping at all…I really think from what you just said that the folks at NMC are having as much fun trying to understand this as we are…


#14

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12469]ab unlimited means any tonnage any ocean so why issue the stcw certificate

makes since

maybe mr cavo can help just to be sure,[/quote]

Ya maybe…

This is alot to digest…I’m gonna spend some time on this and hopefully we can talk later…I’ll catch you in a day or so…Thanks again…I was starting to feel like the only one dealing with this…


#15

my last captain told me that having a masters license trumps the RFPNW and that is why i did not get the stcw certificate as I did not need it for the unlimited rating

maybe someday we can get a straight answer

If you look at the deck requirements for RFPNW
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/RFP_Nav_Watch_Checklist.pdf

it says all service must be on a 200 ton vessel.

policy letter 14-02 says that
50 percent can be done on a 200 ton vessel and the other 50 percent on a vessel meeting the requirements for able seaman as per reference (b) all steering and helm assessments must be done on a vessel over 100 tons.

lets see 50 percent on a 100 ton vessel and the other 50 percent on a 200 ton vessel
go figure:rolleyes::rolleyes:
policy letter says one thing checklist says another:eek::eek::eek:


#16

[quote=Mr 100-ton;12472]my last captain told me that having a masters license trumps the RFPNW and that is why i did not get the stcw certificate as I did not need it for the unlimited rating

maybe someday we can get a straight answer

If you look at the deck requirements for RFPNW
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/RFP_Nav_Watch_Checklist.pdf

it says all service must be on a 200 ton vessel.

policy letter 14-02 says that
50 percent can be done on a 200 ton vessel and the other 50 percent on a vessel meeting the requirements for able seaman as per reference (b) all steering and helm assessments must be done on a vessel over 100 tons.

lets see 50 percent on a 100 ton vessel and the other 50 percent on a 200 ton vessel
go figure:rolleyes::rolleyes:
policy letter says one thing checklist says another[/quote]

It certainly does…I knew about the helm requirement but it contradicts it self…Makes it a little tough on us “Entry Level” mainers…

1080 days to get AB unlimited but we are still entry level…go figure…


#17

MR.100,

Well I finally had some time to really go over NVIC 14-02 …again! Read it 5 times and the only thing I can come up with is on page 2, of enclosure 1 paragraph 9…(The 5th page as you scroll down)

It looks like someone who can show proof of one year of approved seatime between 1 OCT 1986 and 30 Sept. 1991 can get this endorsement…In paragraph 8, it talks about RFPNW lookout duties only…Then para 9 takes over…So, I’m not sure if you would get the complete rating or just lookout duties…

Do those dates fit any of your sea time? They don’t for me…I got out of the Navy in Apil 1986…6 months short of the dates that they will accept…Just my luck…

There is nothing else in 14-02 that is going to help us…


#18

THIS WAS THE REPLY TO THE BELOW QUESTION I SENT NMC LAST WEEK BY EMAIL

to get Ab unlimited, having STCW is a requirement. In order to AB unlimited on STCW, the mariner would need RFPNW

Because RFPNW is inherent to AB unlimited, it would not specifically say that you had RFPNW

Brandon Crouse
security assistant corp
team lead
contractor to U.S. Coast Guard
N.M.C.
THIS WAS MY QUESTION TO NMC LAST WEEK
My question to them was

  1. with AB unlimited rating on an MMD is it a prerequisite to have your RFPNW done or do they issue this rating without the RFPNW
  2. when MMC issues the UNLIMITED rating do they issue an STCW certificate with the RFPNW on it???

Mr. 100-ton


#19

Post by JDCAVO

[quote=jdcavo;11811]You need STCW if you work on a sea-going vessel (outside the boundary line) of at least 500 GT ITC (generaally (but not always) 200 GRT).

You don’t automatically get RFPNW just because you qualify for AB. While an AB on a sea-going vessel needs STCW, they are separate requirements. You need to complete all the RFPNW assessments and have 6 months of time performing bridge watchkeeping under supervision (not just sea time) on a sea-going vessel. You also need current basic safety training to get RFPNW.[/quote]

seem to contradict each other. NO offense meant to JDCAVO or NMC.


#20

What?! That’s never happened before!