Reinauer and Moran


Before I tell my story, I just want to say that I am never Happy to see or hear about Anyone taking a pay cut or losing their job.

My career began in N.Y. Harbor in the 70’s and I have seen the Good Times and Lived through the Bad Times. In 1988 when 333 was Locked out (Strike) there were a lot of guys that came up from the Gulf as it was very slow down there. I was put back to work under the Court Ordered Injunction, and as it turned out I was the Only union Member on my Tug. I was told that I would be working under the “Chief” and to keep my mouth shut. The Scab Captain was actually a pretty good guy. He sat me down and told me that he would put up NO B.S. on the boat. He then sat down the rest of the crew and told him the same thing. He was actually harder on his crew than he was on me. He told them that we were there to work and it was up to the courts to decide what the outcome would be and fighting on the boat would do not good.

Unfortunately, most of the other Captains did not feel the same way as he did and went out of their way to try and make me and anyone from the Union to quit! I remember one Captain getting in my face saying that he could not wait for me to quit as he had a whole bunch of guys ready to come north and show Us how things should be done. I remember him saying that he made $170.00. I asked if he knew anyone that would work for $165.00 and he said sure do, the look on his face when I said why do they need you then was priceless!

There was one tour where I was the only Chief as the other guy decided to take some time off after working almost 8 months straight. I was still covered by the Union Contract which was being enforced by the Court Injunction. I did my one week tour and was supposed to get off. The company decided to force me to stay on the boat, after working over for almost 5 days, the Captain said that he was surprised that I was staying and not bitching about getting off, I had called the company for the first day asking for a relief but after that I kept my mouth shut. So, I told the Captain that if the company wanted to pay me OT around the clock I would stay as long as they wanted. I had been on OT since 1400 on the day I was due off. He called the company and asked if this was true, they almost shit themselves when they found out that I was correct. They put me off that afternoon. When I came back I found out that they had idled the Main Engine for the entire week that I was gone because they never put another Engineer onboard.

It really got tiring hearing how much better everyone from the Gulf were and how they would not be happy until they took all of the jobs. When the time came where the companies were tired of paying for double crews on the boats, they started letting people go. You should have heard guys bitching about how they have been there for a year and they should be treated better. I just laughed and said that these companies thought Nothing about laying off guys the well over 20 years so why would they care about you!

I finally got tired of all of the B.S. of the games the company was pulling and left for another company in a different area.

I guess that you can say that all of this left a pretty bad taste in my mouth when it comes from guys from the Oil Patch.

Until the time comes where guys will stop under cutting someone to take a job these companies will continue to play games. I really hope that this down turn in the Oil Patch will not / does not start a bidding war driving everyone’s wages down. As much as people will not like me saying but it is the truth, You have never heard of Guys from the Northeast going to the Gulf and working for less just to take jobs away from those that live there!

I really hope that everyone can stay working but stabbing each other in the back by under cutting wages helps no one except the Companies!

Rant Off!



I don’t know anyone that would take a job to make less money, just to take a job away from somebody else. I don’t see the logic in that at all.

On the other hand, When the big money hit the Gulf, anyone that didn’t entertain the idea of doubling their income, wasn’t thinking either.

Eventually the oil price will go up and everything will level out again. Until then, I’m just going to keep upgrading, and knocking out schools. Should shit hit the fan, I would, without a seconds notice, be dragging my ass back up North, and not giving a rat’s ass about the opinions of disgruntles.



Well said Ace!!!



Remember…333 membership overwhelmingly voted to go to MMP. Can’t see that happening if they were just loving life the way it was and refused any change.

Nov. 13 — Members of the International Longshoremen’s Association local representing tugboat captains and crews, Staten Island Ferry workers and other New York Harbor mariners have voted overwhelmingly to merge with the larger International Organization of Masters, Mates and Pilots (MMP) within the ILA.

ILA Local 333, United Marine Division, and the MMP announced Nov. 13 that the New York harbor workers had approved the affiliation by more than a 2-1 ratio, 423-182, in a mail ballot. Local 333 represents 1,300 watermen who operate tugboats, dredges, tourist boats and ferries.

The MMP, a 4,600-member national union based in Linthicum Heights, Md., represents deck officers on U.S.-flag ocean-going ships, as well as captains and crews on vessels working in inland waterways and harbor pilots in New York and other U.S. ports.

Local 333 was founded in 1935 to represent maritime workers in the New York City area and elsewhere in the Northeast, the unions said. It has suffered financially and contracted from 2,800 members since a costly 1988 strike that ended in concessions and lost union jobs.

Affiliation with the MMP will give New York harbor mariners access to the larger union’s resources—including its credit union, legal services, financial and lobbying support and training facility—but the members will “still maintain local control,” Local 333 Secretary-Treasurer Ron Tucker said in a statement.

The Local 333 mariners also will be eligible for job openings on inland waters in other regions, the unions said.

“While we represent many ship’s officers and harbor pilots who live in the greater metropolitan New York area and who navigate large commercial vessels in and out of the Port of New York and New Jersey every day, we haven’t had much of a presence aboard smaller vessels working the harbor and the coastal waters of the Northeast for many years,” MMP President Don Marcus said in a statement on the approval vote.

“Now that the ballots have been cast, we can join forces to build better working conditions for mariners in New York Harbor and all along the Atlantic Seaboard.”

One of Oldest U.S. Unions
The MMP, one of the oldest unions in the U.S., is the marine affiliate of the ILA. It was founded in New York in 1887, the union said on its website, by harbor pilots and sea captains who had first come together to protest the treatment of one Captain Charles P. Smith for his role in an 1880 boiler explosion on the paddle-wheel steamer, the Seawanhaka, which he commanded on the East River.
Scapegoated by local politicians despite his heroic conduct, the union said, Smith eventually was cleared of any wrongdoing.

A parallel vote by MMP members on proposed constitutional changes related to the merger is due to be completed in December, according to information on the officers’ union website. If the plan is approved, Local 333 will become the new Atlantic Maritime Group, an independent division within the MMP United Inland Group.



With out recency, or a towing endorsement your tug options are pretty limited. Take whatever you can until you get them out of the way. I’d get your towing endorsement first then work on the rest.



So how are things now that 333 has been converted to MMP? Any improvement?



Haven’t made any management changes I hear. Kind of like when Kirby bought K-Sea… Not sure what can improve with the same flunkies calling the shots. Dues are going through the roof though, I think. I’ve heard people throw out numbers like $275/month but I have no evidence to back that up and I think the guys in the union would be much happier if someone could prove me wrong.



Dues are going to be 1% of salary for the first year then 1.25% second year and 1.5% for the third year and then it stays at 1.5% and could go up to 2% if the union is still hemorrhaging money. But there has to be a vote for that to happen i think. So if u make $100,000, 1% is $1,000. $1000/12 is $83.33 monthly



[QUOTE=NYBoatman;157182]Dues are going to be 1% of salary for the first year then 1.25% second year and 1.5% for the third year and then it stays at 1.5% and could go up to 2% if the union is still hemorrhaging money. But there has to be a vote for that to happen i think. So if u make $100,000, 1% is $1,000. $1000/12 is $83.33 monthly[/QUOTE]

Does that include insurance, pension and training?


That is just dues. All that other stuff must be worked into the contracts at negotiations. If the contract isnt up for a few years then they'll have to wait it out. I know ill have to wait 3 years.


[QUOTE=NYBoatman;157182]Dues are going to be 1% of salary for the first year then 1.25% second year and 1.5% for the third year and then it stays at 1.5% and could go up to 2% if the union is still hemorrhaging money. But there has to be a vote for that to happen i think. So if u make $100,000, 1% is $1,000. $1000/12 is $83.33 monthly[/QUOTE]

Is there a $275 figure mixed in there somewhere? Could it have been an initiation fee? I know I heard $275 as some part of the deal but maybe they didn’t have their facts straight.



I havent heard anything about $275. Initiation is $1500 for license and $1000 i think.



[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;157187]Is there a $275 figure mixed in there somewhere? Could it have been an initiation fee? I know I heard $275 as some part of the deal but maybe they didn’t have their facts straight.[/QUOTE]

When I joined the SIU in '86, there was a $600 initiation fee and $300 a year dues. When I retired 24 years later, I think it was up to $1000 initiation and $500 dues. All could be paid quarterly. Our insurance was paid by the company as the insurance is through the SIU. Dues are tax deductible also. The benefits we negotiated were top tier.



I havent heard anything about 275$ either. I was also told 1% of salary. And yes we still have the same bozos coming from 333 to MMP but i think we will be able to vote them out with in the next few years if membership finds someone better to replace them.



[QUOTE=AtlanticView;156815]I am hoping to make the switch from OSV’s to NY/east coast tugs. I have not been furloughed or laid off but the job insecurity in the air is starting to get to me. I would like to go to one of the more respected tug boat companies, and from what I am reading that means Moran and Reinauer, among others. I have been doing a lot of forum searches as well as on the web in general, but am having trouble finding much on info Reinauer. I have found a decent amount on Moran, but would also like to hear if anybody has any more recent information. The main things I am looking for is a safe work environment, positive work environment, and respect for mariners from the management. Money is important, but not everything. That’s why Bouchard is not on the list. Anybody have any feedback? These forums are great, in the two years I have been lurking here this is the first time I’ve had to post, from all the information that’s already here! Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

In my own experience in the Gulf, and East Coast Towing Industry;

Moran is run by tyrant and worse yet, a ring-knocker and ex-engineer. He fits the description “Gatekeeper” and “Screaming Mimi” as described in management types in the new STCW course titled “Leadership and Managerial Skills”.

Safety? Mediocre or average at best. Fairly typical, Safety on paper for the benefit of their customers review.

A work environment dominated by fear, created by the “Gatekeeper” VP in-charge. It takes no real skill to dominate people when you are in charge, but earning the respect of the people you manage is a “whole other” issue.

Finally, Union representation from the old Local 333 bullshit artists is an absolute joke. Your dues should qualify as charitable deductions for supporting the ol’ 333 bums… They are uneducated in anything Labor, or anything else for that matter. They tell members outright lies, Reinauer and Moran Management receive better representation from the Union bums than dues-paying members for the most part.

What you look for is out there but I would be surprised to hear you found it in NY Harbor or any current Maritime Union Job. Perhaps West Coast Unions are different, but in my own experience in the SIU and ILA affiliated Maritime Unions, I found them dominated by Union Officials who have been in office far too long and fully engaged in the clique (good ol’ boy network) of perpetuating their own interest far ahead of the members who support them.



Who do you work for? I’m seeking NY tug employment and need advice on employers and what is reasonable pay in NY as an AB

[QUOTE=BargeMonkey;156866]You havent graced us with your present job title but the truth is youve got a better chance at the lottery than getting a steering job at Reinauer out of the gate. I spent almost 9yrs there, and can go back anytime with open arms but i refuse to be someones bitch in the engine room again or fly to the GOM. As Mr Rhib just said, dont knock Bouchard till you tried it. I decked 3 yrs @ Moran and can tell you the grass isnt any greener. Respect for the mariner, fucking please. You do your hitch, do your job and go the fuck home. The last boat i was on had all 1600-2nd/3rds for deckhands, and these guys where eager and salty and still where waiting in line to steer. If you dont have much NY experience why not try Harley, Vane or Kirby, i always see them hiring and you dont have to join any wicked unions. Deckhands here make just south of 400 a day and we are always hiring but it isnt for guys wanting a lazy tugboat job.[/QUOTE]



Moran and mac mate pay? Any ideas on their harbor pay vs offshore boats



same pay out of NY within the company more or less. Moran pays mates depending on whether or not it’s “chief mate” ATB and if it’s a conventional boat whether or not the barge is above a certain size. Small barge and Harbor boat is the same. Deckhand is the Same. Mate on a regular boat is mid 500’s.

Mcallister depends who where when what. Some guys do ok there. Probably close to reinauer mate wages on the high end moving oil with seniority and high 300’s to 400’s entry level.

Reinauer pay is the same regardless of what boat and where. They have exceptions in their contract for dredging etc but you don’t see reinauer boats dredging.



NY Mcallister mate for tugs not moving oil were mid/high 400s, moving oil low 500s.



Thanks for the info