Im new to the forum but thought I’d share some experiences. I have a 200 MOT and worked 6 years as a hand and Tankerman PIC before I ever thought about getting a license. Ive been licensed for 3 years now and had some great jobs as mate and master of towing vessels. Recently I had a captain who had a 1600 ton license and I was his mate. I soon learned by watching him operate , he had no towing experience. when I asked where he had gottten his TOAR signed he said he has a 1600 ton, he only had to ride 30 days on a tug and and do some simulator training. What a fuckin’ joke that is… just because a guy has a higher tonnage license makes it easier for him to be a Master of Towing vessels. I have since then run into this 2 more times and can’t believe it. There is a difference between master and a real Tug Master, Im not saying that other vessels dont involve boat handling and skill, just that when you dont even know what a spelter socket or pigtail is … you probbly should not be towing! anyone else ever come across this before? I’d love to hear back!
Apply at the HORSE and ask for HOT Fleet young sailor if wire towing is what you want!!
Hmm, do you feel as though you hit a Toxic Subject that NO ONE wants to touch?
[QUOTE=tugsri;104505]Hmm, do you feel as though you hit a Toxic Subject that NO ONE wants to touch?[/QUOTE]
Apparantly I have, does that make me the asshole? haha…
Don’t get me started.
when I asked where he had gottten his TOAR signed he said he has a 1600 ton, he only had to ride 30 days on a tug and and do some simulator training. Its a [/QUOTE]
That rule is bs. It took me years to get my mot and all kinds of hoops to jump. And just cause you have a bigger license you get to do 30 days and a completed toar and boom you can steer a tug. Thats bs! They should get it the same way everyone else is getting it.
[QUOTE=captbbrucato;104572]Don’t get me started.[/QUOTE]
And here I was making popcorn - DAMN!
[QUOTE=Jolly Tar;104586]And here I was making popcorn - DAMN![/QUOTE]
I should just cut and paste my last post about this little gem…
The concept of actual towing training and experience before being allowed to be a towing officer, and TOAR was a good idea, but the implementation is a joke.
Designated Examiner qualification should be a requirement for renewal of an MOT.
[QUOTE=captbbrucato;104625]I should just cut and paste my last post about this little gem…[/QUOTE]
I’ll stick to the popcorn myself. Last time I expressed what I thought was a fairly neutral comment on this issue, I ended up being quoted in places I didn’t forsee or intend. Fortunately, it looks like they let their domain name expire or didn’t pay their IP bill and my unintended quote is gone. But maybe it’s still there, I can’t tell: http://www.mtvassociation.com/
[QUOTE=jdcavo;104639]I’ll stick to the popcorn myself. Last time I expressed what I thought was a fairly neutral comment on this issue, I ended up being quoted in places I didn’t forsee or intend. Fortunately, it looks like they let their domain name expire or didn’t pay their IP bill and my unintended quote is gone. But maybe it’s still there, I can’t tell: http://www.mtvassociation.com/[/QUOTE]
Nothing on the internet ever truly goes away:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110714130133/http://www.mtvassociation.com/
Sorry. 
I think that was a fairly neutral comment and fairly helpful as well. Thanks for always doing your best to answer questions for everyone here, Mr. Cavo.
[QUOTE=BilgeRat42;104643]Nothing on the internet ever truly goes away:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110714130133/http://www.mtvassociation.com/
Sorry.
I think that was a fairly neutral comment and fairly helpful as well. Thanks for always doing your best to answer questions for everyone here, Mr. Cavo.[/QUOTE]
It goes away as far as CG HQ is concerned (which might be good enough for me…) That URL is blocked on CG networksd as its an “anonymizing utility.”
If unqualified people are sailing beyond their skill/ability management and the vessel crews aren’t doing their job. Having the license is only part of what one needs to sail in any position. It’s merely a qualification to make it legal, in my opinion.
OK now. You guys wipe off the popcorn butter from your paws and jump right in here. Even our resident CG lurker…
This WHOLE dilemma started way back when some guys on about a half dozen tugs got people killed, bridges knocked down, tugs capsized, and seamen killed. (Note how important we are on the list! LAST)
The prevalent license in the industry was the: ‘Operator Uninspected Towing Vessel’ license. This used to be a ‘stand alone’ license. Meaning, some guys ONLY had a OUTV license, which was ONLY good on tugs. To obtain an OUTV license quite a lot of time was required to be ON a towing vessel. But there was NO proof of towing experience. The ‘deep draft’ side of the equation was trying to quash any and every attempt to acknowledge that Towing Vessels required a distinct skillset. The public opinion (driven by academies) was that the towing license was (is) inferior to either an unlimited license OR a limited license. Meaning that ANYONE with a license that ‘covered’ the tonnage of the tug was deemed qualified to operate a tug. But towing vessel operators could not (for example operate an inspected passenger carrying vessel (of the tonnage of their towing license)) Subsequently, The USCG implemented a VERY strict license structure to REMOVE the original OUTV (Operator Uninspected Towing Vessel) LIcense completely. They wanted licenses based upon industry, and tonnage only. NO way to ‘cross over with no experience’.
Now on to recent times. The USCGs original implementation of a restricted ability to get a MOTV endorsement was heralded as a way to STOP industry crossovers from doing exactly what was done in several cases (Bay Titan) where a recent Maritime Graduate was ‘congratulated’ with his freshly minted diploma and a Captains job on a tug. He killed two crew and completely blocked the C&D canal for about two weeks. The original criteria for integration into a TUG Masters (or Mate) berth was to have ONE year on a tug in a training capacity. (Even this is too little in my humble opinion) There was a 5 year ‘window’ for companies to come up with some plan to ‘bring along’ new candidates for promotion to fill vacancies. The USCG didn’t just slap this new plan in overnight, there was a 5 (FIVE) Yes, I said FIVE year window of prep time! About a year prior to the implementation date some companies realized that they were going to either be in a SERIOUS bind for tug operators, OR they were going to have to pay through the nose for them. (God knows we can’t allow that, right!)
Step forward to about a year from full implementation, and (IIRC, KIRBY or ACBL was the instigator) ONE inland company petitioned the USCG, lobbied very successfully and implemented the current plan we now have, That a person who can document three years experience on any vessel, and / or has a ‘greater than 200 ton license’ can just provide 30 days, and a completed TOAR and Viola… They are a fully experienced Tug Master/Mate. I would LOVE to know how much the USCG commander got for this slick little piece of Bullshit being thrown together so fast, and gutted the very reasons why the first ‘revamping’ of the towing regs was implemented.
On the OP, most of the ATBS now have guys who have NEVER (well, almost no experience) put a barge on the wire, and the crews on most of them would be like a ‘HMS Bounty’ crewman if forced to put a barge on the wire. So, your observations are spot on. Too bad Uncle Sam Confused Group hasn’t a clue.
A post was merged into an existing topic: Towing Sailboats in Canada?