No pink slips at HOS that I know of. But if your a $800/day mediocre type with a bad eval and is bounced around the fleet you might hold off on making any major lifestyle changes. There is a noticeable change on the boats that were full of extras a few months ago. Now the crews are trimmed down to normal numbers. I heard from good source that some extras were pulled off their boats to trim down crew costs. Where they went was not mentioned.
I am headed to my new permanent boat next hitch and had my last hitch cut short. An unplanned shock at the holidays but they made sure I at least got a couple weeks in as an extra as opposed to sitting at home for 8 weeks.
[QUOTE=c.captain;149740] You obviously do believe yourselves to be special and above all the rest by displaying no humility whatsoever. Now it is cry and whine how boats are stacking up and Shane Bubba is being the first to realize he can’t afford to pay y’all such obscenely high wages. They bosses got y’all hooked good and deep. You can’t get out if you wanted to. Will say that I am enjoying the show though as y’all squirm on the hook…
.[/QUOTE]
c.captain is c.correct in one sense. People who get the high wages tend to think they are better than everyone else. They think their shat doesn’t stink and they are entitled to things without earning them. A little humility goes a long way.
Just remember, everyone can be and eventually will be replaced.
C.captain is as much a flip flop artist as any career politician. For the last year he has called us all in the GoM suckers for being lowballed by Joe Boss and working for peanuts. Now he is gloating that we will be getting a deserved pay reduction because we are just truck drivers for Joe Boss. The fact is that our rates only reflect the profit of the vessel we run. If a tug made $40,000/day, the day rate of the crew would reflect that. Plain and simple.
As for the boats pushing mud…good grief…its winter. Thats how it goes. As for Harvey…we all knew they were paying too much. How could they pay thirds more than masters at ECO and Hornbeck. A 15% cut puts them in line with the rest of us.
C.captain, you are a miserable person. I know several who have sailed with you and none were sad to see you go. Anybody who gets their pleasure by dragging others down must not have much else in their life. Im embarrassed to share the seas with you.
So when the boats are tied up or sent overseas and recrewed foreign the union contract still pays out? So you're saying if the contract with the company had three years left and these things happened I could collect my check for three years? No wonder companies down here don't want a union if I owned a company I'd be scared also. Image having to pay half your employees for a no show job for a year or more.
What happens when the severance is paid out? Now you have no job and no regular check. What happens when there 10 guys for every job all looking for work at the same time? Why not $100 cut and you still keep your job and benefits. You’ll get your $ back and more once things pick up again.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;149792]So when the boats are tied up or sent overseas and recrewed foreign the union contract still pays out? So you’re saying if the contract with the company had three years left and these things happened I could collect my check for three years? No wonder companies down here don’t want a union if I owned a company I’d be scared also. Image having to pay half your employees for a no show job for a year or more.
What happens when the severance is paid out? Now you have no job and no regular check. What happens when there 10 guys for every job all looking for work at the same time? Why not 100 cut and you still keep your job and benefits. You'll get your back and more once things pick up again.[/QUOTE]
That’s not what he wrote or meant. The intent is if the (union contract) ship is laid up or scrapped, the permanent crew gets a small settlement. If you’re worth anything the company will find a spot for you. Otherwise you’re out a job and back to the hall.
If you are on a relief job you get the duration of your despatch paid, so you don’t start what you think is a 90day job and get 3 weeks pay, since your shipping card is burned …
Where I work (foreign flag non union) we would pay 30-90 days base wages in such cases. The pay is super great but the benefits not as good as union. I have no doubt if the contract here dries up, I’ll be sent packing. Just the way it is … Something always turns up.
What Johnny C is writing about is little bit more about respect and a two way (union) agreement. But hey, people are people and I wish everyone well.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;149792]So when the boats are tied up or sent overseas and recrewed foreign the union contract still pays out? So you’re saying if the contract with the company had three years left and these things happened I could collect my check for three years? No wonder companies down here don’t want a union if I owned a company I’d be scared also. Image having to pay half your employees for a no show job for a year or more.
What happens when the severance is paid out? Now you have no job and no regular check. What happens when there 10 guys for every job all looking for work at the same time? Why not $100 cut and you still keep your job and benefits. You’ll get your $ back and more once things pick up again.[/QUOTE]
Yes, often times they do. I got a $6000 gross paycheck from Horizon Lines for a 120 day dispatch that lasted only 21 days b/c the old steamer was laid up in Orange, TX. I knew it was going to be a lay-up, and clearly so did the company. Common practice for that severance equivalent with those contracts.
I said for a “period of time afterwards.” It is a reasonable period. Don’t jump to ridiculous conclusions in an effort to make unions/unionization look greedy or me stupid. I can confidently say I know a fair bit about both operations now. Shipping companies have pretty dedicated bean counters and contract negotiators who determine as many possible scenarios as they can. You don’t see American shipping companies building vessel after vessel on speculation or jacking up wages just because hire rates are sky rocketing. That goes for union and non-union alike.
Are you seriously trying to make severance pkgs look bad? Do you think the guys at Seacor got anything with their walking papers? If HOS gave you the axe tomorrow or GM did the same to me b/c of numerous boats off hire with no promising prospects what are either of us promised? Who would you rather be, the guy with a severance pkg looking for a job, or the guy with no severance pkg looking for a job?
What happens when there 10 guys for every job all looking for work at the same time? Why not $100 cut and you still keep your job and benefits. You’ll get your $ back and more once things pick up again.
The same thing that happened to MOST of this country in late 2008 through all of 2009 and into 2010… mass unemployment coupled with SLASHED salaries. Sure, the CEOs got their money back, but certainly not the workers. Given the ever increasing number of MMCs in the gulf now, very good chance would be no different if it happened to us.
If a paycut is a rational fix, then fine. That’s not what we are talking about and I don’t think that is what most mariners are concerned with down here.
You asked if people lose their jobs what would the union have done for them. Considering the answer for the non-union companies is mostly like “jack shit,” a union’s assistance / negotiating on your behalf via contract is a mountain by comparison.
No wonder companies down here don’t want a union if I owned a company I’d be scared also. Image having to pay half your employees for a no show job for a year or more.
As far as companies not wanting unions down here because of such an expensive scenario, Drillers and OSV operators waste more money (especially these days) than shipping companies could ever imagine. Wasted money on unnecessary mariners (especially licenses), wasted money on unnecessary classes, wasted money on keeping boats/MODUs fully crewed in shipyards when unnecessary, wasted money on food, and on and on. Nothing like paying mates and engineers their day rate doing grunt work in the yard that they could hire 2 ABs or 2 OSs to do for less than half the money per employee. Union contracts provide for reduced manning in those situations in order to save the company money.
Unions will never be a factor down here because no one is willing to take on anything that could propose a threat to production. A box boat at anchor off Long Beach for a day or 2 because of ILWU striking may represent a similar % loss on day rate compared to OSV, but an OSV sitting idle at the dock not getting essential shit to the rig is huge considering the rig may be rented for up to $600k / day. MODU operators and their clients worry about roughnecks and roustabouts unionizing more than any other crew aboard.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;149789]C.captain, you are a miserable person. I know several who have sailed with you and none were sad to see you go. Anybody who gets their pleasure by dragging others down must not have much else in their life. Im embarrassed to share the seas with you.[/QUOTE]
no worries…you stay in your muddy hole and I will stay in the Pacific where real mariners work as opposed to the entitled self important button mashers who think they know how to go sail ships on the sea when all they know is from Belle Pass to their rig and back. I used to say seagoing pickup truck drivers but that is a mischaracterization…floating pickup truck drivers is more accurate. Working in the GoM ain’t going to sea nor will it ever be. Not sorry for wounding your delicate pride…
btw, never said you didn’t get enough from Joe Boss…what I’ve said is you never got respected by him. With respect comes better benefits and treatment. Paid travel and even time to start. Those evil pensions and job security with a contract of employment instead of the famous Louisiana “at-will” terms where Joe holds all aces and you don’t even hold a pair of deuces. Y’'all are just happy with a piece of silver Joe tosses you and will get nothing more until you demand it but you never will because when times are really good, y’all are just thrilled to death making the big money instead of using leverage to get a real deal. When times go south like they are going to now, not only do you not have leverage to get more but have absolutely nothing to use to prevent getting less.
well good on ya mate…you get what you deserve I say
The only real mariners are in the Pacific huh? Ok then.
Your song and dance is getting old. We know you hate the Gulf and anyone who works on it. We know you hate non union mariners and the people who employ them.
Give it a rest please.
Let’s see I get $5k + as severance and no prospect of a job or $15k-$20k a year cut and I get to keep my job and benefits. Hmmmm. If I’m furloughed and need to find a job sounds like I shoulda saved some of those big bucks when times were good. The ebb and flow of the oilfield is I get a raise when things are good and maybe give a little back when it slows down. When I picks up again I get that money back and a little more. Since Katrina my day rate has increased $700 a day and we weathered the spill. Now we have another slowdown which we will probably survive and if I have to take a paycut it beats the alternative. Sitting in a union hall drinking free coffee as my unemployment ran out months prior scratching my head. Been there and done that…
[QUOTE=Bayrunner;149799]The only real mariners are in the Pacific huh? Ok then. [/QUOTE]
Alaska specifically…
Remember the “First Law of Holes”?
When you find yourself in hole, the first thing to do is: Stop Digging.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;149803]Remember the “First Law of Holes”?
When you find yourself in hole, the first thing to do is: Stop Digging.[/QUOTE]
Ok by me…I have roused the rabble enough for one day
now back to the cartoon already in progress…
Workboat posted a picture on there website about a year ago with the average wages for Mariners working in different geographical areas of the country. The west coast came in dead last. The gulf first, northeast 2nd, south east third and down the line. Looks like C. Capt has it made out there on the left coast. And since I have left the military I have never paid travel. Not once. I don’t even set it up. The company emails me my flight info. Granted I don’t work on an OSV but I am in the gulf at the moment. I have been for two years now. Before that I worked the east coast, primarily NY Harbor but into Canada and the Great Lakes as well. My benefits are good. Really good. Which is why I know for a fact that C. Capt doesn’t know shit about what every company out there offers. He’s just bitter and tries to find the fault in everything he looks at. I’m sure he can find that picture since he’s so good at looking crap like that up while he steers his desk.
[ATTACH]4120[/ATTACH]
I found it. My apologies, the pacific coat is next to last but either way it’s not at the top.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;149800]Let’s see I get $5k + as severance and no prospect of a job or $15k-$20k a year cut and I get to keep my job and benefits. Hmmmm. If I’m furloughed and need to find a job sounds like I shoulda saved some of those big bucks when times were good. The ebb and flow of the oilfield is I get a raise when things are good and maybe give a little back when it slows down. When I picks up again I get that money back and a little more. Since Katrina my day rate has increased $700 a day and we weathered the spill. Now we have another slowdown which we will probably survive and if I have to take a paycut it beats the alternative. Sitting in a union hall drinking free coffee as my unemployment ran out months prior scratching my head. Been there and done that…[/QUOTE]
Let’s see… you asked about what happens if boats were laid up (which equals lay offs) and how a union would handle that. I gave you the answer, one based in fact and my own recent (2013) personal experience, but you want to keep comparing a severance pkg (along with walking papers) to a wage cut but obviously continued employment. The latter is not an option if your boat is laid up, clearly. Your scenario, not mine.
Once again, fired with a severance pkg or fired without one? A big fucking “Hmmm” to you.
And who hell the told you the coffee was free?
Unfortunately, I cannot open your Workboat post, but that info is probably three years old by now.
Alaska and PNW (Pacific Northwest) pay is about the same as NY (higher than the rest of the East Coast).
The top 10 companies in the Gulf pay more (much more) than the PNW or NY, but the average Gulf company pays about the same, and there are many Gulf companies that pay less (some a lot less). Virginia and the Southeast appear to have the lowest mariner wages.
The coffee was free at every SIU hall I sat in while I watched my card expire and fall to the bottom of the list. I registered in the Mobile, Jville, NOLA and Houston halls one dry hole after another. Fuck that not doing it again…ever. Anybody got that number to Truckmaster?
I am pretty positive that c.captain is a closet Marxist and he probably admires the teachings of Mao Zedong.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;149814]The coffee was free at every SIU hall I sat in while I watched my card expire and fall to the bottom of the list. I registered in the Mobile, Jville, NOLA and Houston halls one dry hole after another. Fuck that not doing it again…ever. Anybody got that number to Truckmaster?[/QUOTE]
Sure… the coffee was free, no one in “leadership” at SIU cares whether or not the membership contributes to SPAD, and Sacco cares about his brothers.