Panama Canal B S

Did anybody ever consider the extra water requirements when the expanded locks were constructed and in use ???
Did anybody ever consider pumping the (supposed) fresh water back inland vs total release into either oceans ???
Did anybody ever consider using sea water in the artificial / man-made lake to supply the locks water???
There was NO fresh water lakes before the canal…

It is not raining yet, yet notice when the over land bridge (Mexico Rail) comes to topic, the ditch is quickly looking better.

How did charging millions of extra dollars, to move the most desperate ship ahead of the rest, Help the canal??? Pay for a better rain dancer ???

The world has been duped, again…

Have read somewhere that FW shortages in Lake Gatun apart from lack of rain are caused by FW mismanagement . But what factor is the prevailing cause of extra draft limitation for passing traffic needs an in depth analyses and research . The problem is that PCA may not be willing to provide confidential data for such a process. Rain may provide some answers if it is coming.

Panama Canal restrictions set to ease as rains roll in - Splash247

I’m not asking this to be a pot stirrer, I’m asking because I’m genuinely curious what everyone here thinks:

Was the U.S. handing over control of the canal to the Panamanians a mistake?

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IMHO a huge one.

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Was it worth it to avoid fighting a low-grade insurgency over it all these decades?

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After all the carnage off building the canal, we gave it up.
IMO, We should still be running it for our national security and commerce.

@captainralph

  1. Yes. Except they don’t use more water, they use less. Hey - not everyone is the dumb ass you think they are.
  2. Yes. Hey, guess what, they do that now using a cross filling technique that saves a ton of water. Not everyone is the dumb ass you think they are.
  3. Not really. Seawater in a lake is an environmental disaster, with potential to contaminate the drinking water of millions of people, not to mention the negative impact to the ecosystem. As you may know, salt water really f’s things up.
  4. I mean really, they built the thing over a hundred years ago and until a couple of years ago it has been working great. This is one of the greatest engineering achievements of all time, I think we can say that if they have to pause for a minute to figure out how to manage the effects of climate change that isn’t unreasonable.

Charging extra…the Panama Canal isn’t a non-profit.

One issue regarding FW ‘mismanagement’ is the growing population of the area uses more fresh water, which further depleats Gatun Lake. They have a real puzzle on their hands.

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This was one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the USA. President Jimmy Carter for some reason wanted to give the Panama Canal to Panama, not give it back… it was never theirs… There is much to discuss on this topic, but the most important fact is, we needed the Panama Canal for our Military’s strategic defense in that part of the world. If i remember correctly there were at least 10 different military bases in the Panama Canal Zone. Army, Airforce, Navy and Marines, since 1914 when the Canal opened for ship traffic. Immediately after the Panama Canal was handed over to Panama on December 31, 1999 the Panama government gave China a long term contract that was recently renewed to operate the ports on both the Pacific an Atlantic sides of the Canal. So now China is in a position to control the Canal… a big disaster. i lived there from 1969 to 1975.

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You realize they built a massive expansion of the canal a few years ago right?

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Of course. The new locks use less water than the old locks, even though they can pass larger ships. I was trying to answer the question, “Did anybody ever consider the extra water requirements when the expanded locks were constructed…” Answer: yes; quite a lot of thought went into this.

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it was a 99 year lease and it was expiring. yes, i was sad to see it pass 100% to Panama but there are some stipulations still in place like price controls (at least for some american stuff) and probably provisos for defense or maybe maintenance?
One thing for sure, in todays economy and lacklustre govt. management scenario the canal would probably be costing the usa a whole lot more money.

The expanded canal began commercial operation on 26 June 2016.

The project has:

  • Built two new sets of locks Atlantic and Pacific sides, and excavated new channels to the new locks
  • Widened and deepened existing channels
  • Raised the maximum operating water level of Gatun Lake

Two things .

I may be wrong of course but one set of extra locks used for bigger vessels added to old set of locks by implication should use more water .

New locks have been around for 8 years . The suggestion , that climate has changed only within 8 years is a bit odd. According to GW activists Arctic Ice was supposed to disappear already in 2015 and GW was allegedly triggered by industrial revolution in GB.

Madam Greta is suggesting nowadays that " it is cold because it is too warm ". So I remain condused but not melting yet.

Yes, the ACP is guilty of not seeing the future. Please note that the expansion of the canal was hotly debated for many years by many parties, thus my original post, because it bothers me when people like @captainralph speak like everyone are idiots. Is it perfect? No. Did a lot of smart people spend a lot of work trying to get it right and do a pretty good job? Yes.

Public policy and infrastructure are really f’ing complicated and hard. If he is so good at it he should get up there and do it himself. To use 20 years of hindsight and ignore over all the problems that were solved and all the problems that wouldn’t have been solved if they had taken no action is totally disingenuous.

As you point out, they have been in operation since 2016. But the studies to support the project were done before 2006. Yes, climate change was well underway by then too, but since everyone continues to ignore us greenies now, it is no surprise that they were also ignored in pre-2006.

I could not find stats on true water consumption, year over year. As you point out, more locks may equal more water. However I did find that the number of transits has been more or less static since the 80s, but tonnage has continued ever upward. Tonnage and Number of Transits, Panama Canal, 1915-2023 | Port Economics, Management and Policy

Greta and the like are drawing attention to an issue by being hyperbolic because, in our attention-addicted world, that is effective for some. Less recognized in those circles is that it is repulsive to others, and perhaps not serving her ultimate cause in the end. And the arctic ice is disappearing, apologies if it was not gone on time. To cite one of many examples, friends of mine started working in the Antarctic in the 90s, and now at the same station you can take a RHIB out to where you used to hike on ice.

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Not to change the subject, but the climate has been changing for some time now, and given we’ve been ignoring and passing several benchmark labled as “points of no return” it would make sense if “points of no return” type activities start happening. And given the driving forces of these changes are measure in millibars, it would make sense if these changes started happening relatively quickly.

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It would make sense, except that the boy who cried wolf called. Too many deadlines and tipping points have already passed for credibility to not be strained. . Thus far the only prediction to have amassed the same success rate of 0 is the date of the Rapture.

They did have earlier issues with drought back in the 20’s and 30’s. They had to build another dam to store more water as a result.

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I mean every time somone points at something and says “this is a result of climate change” deniers just say “No :rage:

Its not that boy is crying wolf, its that the town is saying “what you are describing is probably just a large dog, not a wolf. Everything is fine.”

It’s a DIRE WOLF and it harkens the return of the Dragon.

Malthus warned us about the dangers of overpopulation and the coming collapse in 1798. He wasn’t wrong, just a little ahead of his time.

There are consequences to breeding 8 Billion people on a small planet that can probably only sustain ——- 1 Billion over the long term.

Can You name the benchmarks/points of no return" .What are these points ?