Off topic from Illegal dumping

Nothing wrong with the term “FOC” per see. It is an “official” term used by ITF, based on certain criteria. (ITF is not all that fond of FOCs either):

PS> You will notice that FIS and GIS is on the list, as is all the “spoiled Red Duster” flags, but DIS, NIS and S’pore open registers are not.

Of the top 10 Ship Owning nations (by value):
None are on the list of FOCs

The top 3 flag states (by Gross Tonnage):

Are also the largest FOCs

These 3 and several other FOCs appear on the White List of both Paris and Tokyo MOUs:

Many of the listed FOCs also appears on top of ICSs Flag State Performance list:

What is not right is to use the term “FOC” indiscriminately and without any understanding of the term:

I didn’t find any qualification of the term either.

I just search this forum for “3rd world villagers” and it came up with a lot of post where this specific term were used.
Yes, some hit were on posts where I had used the term, but a lot were by other posters. (hence my posts) Not ALL by one person and not “about 10 years ago”.

Similar terms and other derogatory statement about “foreign” seafarer’s qualifications and abilities can be found all though this forum. (Some from long before I joined

If you look for posts with uninformed statements about “FOC” and “Open Registers” (They are not the same) there are plenty. (Low quality built rustbuckets that don’t follow IMO rules etc.)
If this was actually the case, how come several of the FOCs are scoring better with the MOUs than the US-flag fleet?

Not to mention posts about foreigners “buying their licences”, being “unqualified”, or being unskilled and lacking the abilities to perform simple maintenance and repair tasks. (Engineers)
(Remember NOLA??)

Before you demand proof again, look at links I have posted here earlier, every time this is brought up.

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I knew you would.

I didn’t.

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Yes, but I bet you didn’t find any that support your claim that anyone here called ALL foreign seafarers third world villagers.

What’s wrong with the phrase “flag of convenience”. It’s the correct term, it’s obviously not true of all ship’s registries around the world, but that term describes some registries appropriately.

I vaguely remember seeing this term bandied about back in the days of Ccaptain and fraqrat, but not sure who used it. Just a period in time on this forum that stands out to me. There is a very good chance it was intentional trolling to “troll the troll” back then.

I’m sure almost all of them were. His reaction is as predictable as a Bavarian horse hearing “Blücher!”


Agree. To many Americans with investment in shipping it means the convenience of not paying tax and increasing profits by paying lower wages. There are FOC ships that are well managed.

In my ancient experience as a Class Surveyor (through most of the 90s), I found FOC vessels that were extremely well managed and others that were cesspools of disaster. One in particular I recall requesting the documentation, but was refused and the vessel switched to another society before departing (apparently without rectifying the deficiencies). I have not done a precise breakdown, but my gut feeling is that about 40% of FOC vessels had, well, issues. That said, some of the best maintained vessels I ever boarded were FOC. My prejudice for any vessel I surveyed didn’t kick in until I started walking down the dock toward the gangway, and flag or crew nationality had little to do with it. The worse vessels I called “knee bucklers”. You just know there will be some serious issues on these vessels as you climb the gangway.

The first impression when you board a vessel for inspection, no matter how much you try to be totally fair and unbiased, is VERY important for the way you go about your inspection and the final conclusion.

A Senior Lloyds Surveyor that did 20 yr. SS on a Singapore flag ship I was Master on put it this way;
“When I stepped on your clean, well rigged gangway, I knew your Ch.Off. took care of things on deck.
When I looked at the polished brass in the engine room and talked to your very frank and knowledgeable Ch.Eng., I knew that there’s not much problems down there.”

I have always had this in mind when doing survey or audits on ships and rigs later.

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FOC and Open Registry are not the same thing but are often used interchangeably.

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Exactly. Even mixed nationality in the crew and officers isn’t a good indication. I recall the Stena VLCCs that I surveyed regularly, and they were stellar. Both officers and ratings were like a UN convention. Other small operators with mixed crews, not so much, but as we have stated, the most important indicator is what you see as you approach from the dock or boat.


To round off this thread: