OceanGate Titan Sub Tragedy Anniversary

OceanGate Titan sub: Key update on submersible investigation ahead of anniversary of tragedy that killed five (msn.com)

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Titan OceanGate disaster: U.S. super-wealthy still risking their lives (msn.com)

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A 9 seat airfryer ?

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Looks more like a politically correct and “inclusive” pressure cooker.

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Yeah. :wink: and You can hold your hands while praying moments before implosion. Quick death guaranted -You go before you know :wink: . Could be a good business to dispose those rich liking the euthanasia idea . Going in a loud “splash” could be exhilarating.

Titan submersible communication logs that ‘detailed chaos’ between vessel and mother ship found to be fake (msn.com)
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U.S. Coast Guard Releases Titan Submersible Discovery Footage (gcaptain.com)

And Dr,Sal is recognised by FOX channel . Congrats!!!. Looks He was snached so fast for the interview , that He barely managed to don only one item from his three piece suit . Interesting fashion style with hawaian shirt.

Was relieved to see the rest was covered by his desk :wink:

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What on Earth could Sal possibly bring to the table in a discussion on manned submersible design, construction, or operation?

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Dr.Sal has 324 K followers on his utube channel, so such number can not be ignored as it means He has something to say that atracts viewers/listeners.

May be You Sir can ask him directly such question or may be Dr.Sal reading our conversation may opt to answer your question directly.

What on earth makes You think He can not bring to the table anything on manned submersible design, consruction or operation???

From what I see He skilfully collects bits and pieces of info from various sorces and contacts , connects the dots and wraps it up in a nice visual package that attracts web viewers including media who as it looks keenly seek his opinion.

He may be errs sometimes but man is fallible said the hedge jumping off the brush .

Cheers.

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The same reason that the “skillfully collected” mineral samples on my bookshelf don’t make me a geologist.

Because he has no experience or history in any aspect of the submersible industry by which he could enlighten anyone. A “followers” count does not translate to expertise in areas far beyond the training or experience of the “influencer” and it certainly does not by itself imbue a person with any degree of subject matter expertise. I am sure he has opinions on aviation as well, that doesn’t mean he is a source of enlightenment of Boeing or Airbus engineering or manufacturing procedures or systems operation.

You tell me what relevant information on manned submersible manufacturing or operation he might bring to that table. Unless his CV provides evidence of his personal participation in that industry or some relevant engineering expertise, his is just another of the rash of pile-on talking heads cashing in on a tragic but sensational event.

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Well, there is always all that ….

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Followers mean crap and you all know that.

My masters degree was in Maritime History and Nautical Archaeology from East Carolina; now entitled Maritime Studies.

My discussions on Titan usually deal with the issue of certification of the submersible in terms of what is required for inspection and classification compared to that of ships. I also discuss the history of submersible development and operations, their safety record and developments in the field.

I have been watching the hearings all this week and they want someone to come on summarizes the key take aways.

I am happy to defer to anyone else but they know me at LiveNow. Many people active with submersibles, such as many classmates of mine at Woods Hole, with NOAA or other organizations either don’t want to or cant speak publicly on the matter.

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The Titan incident is a perfect example of FAFO.

Scott Manley did an analysis of hearing evidence that pretty much confirms his earlier prediction that the titanium-cf bond failed due to fatigue from the unequal material strain:

Sub Brief also did a video which goes into a bit of detail about the dive sequence and operational history, which is a bit shocking. This wasn’t some isloated incident due to obscure aspects of material science, it was the result of reckless engineering practices with an utter disregard for ORM. Apparently this wasn’t even the first time the front fell off:

I initially felt a bit bad for Stockton Rush, with how he was getting dragged through the mud for ignoring and circumventing the regulatory bureaucracy. The extreme risk aversion so prevalent today makes perfect business sense, but it’s neither the path to rapid technological advancement, nor inherently morraly superior. However, the more I hear about this tragedy the less sympathy I have for the man.

Not only was his operation an obviously unsafe chaos, but stuff like this is also turning up:

I recognize that sort of behavior from an extremely unpleasant billionaire I used to work for (the guy who ran the ship out of fuel). I wonder how come those personality traits seem to be a precursor to incredible success?

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Of course the bond failed, it is obvious because the joint areas are perfectly clean but that doesn’t mean that bond caused the failure.

When we were diving close to 2,000 meters in the Pisces submersibles we sometimes carried items down for entertainment purposes to view the effects of pressure. One pound coffee cans were a great example because their failure was benign, meaning it would not suddenly implode and cause a potentially damaging shock. Even a light bulb would sound like a hand grenade explosion when it failed. The coffee cans would fail in the well understood manner of an unstiffened cylinder, it would compress in the center and the walls would buckle to show a pattern of squares enclosed by ridges created by longitudinal bending.

As everyone knows by now, carbon fiber is not known for its compressive strength. I see the Titan hull failing exactly like the coffee cans except for the fact that instead of bending, the material fractured into small bits from bending and compression loading. The failure of any area of that cylinder would create an inrush of water that could be described as the mother of all water hammers which would blast both hemispheres away from the location of the failure and cleanly shear the relatively weak bond between them and the cylinder. I think the steam guys here can attest to the power of a water hammer more than most. Unless you have actually seen and heard a deep water implosion it is hard to describe the speed and power involved.

If the bond between hull and hemispheres was the source, the hull would experience a rapid equalization of internal and external pressure but not exhibit the fragmentation we see in the videos. Equalization equals reduction in hull strain, not a destructive disassembly.

Just my opinion but at least it is based on real life experience and observation and not in pursuit of subscriptions or views.

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Imagine being inside something experiencing that water hammer, instant protoplasm.

The proposed failure mode is cracking of the CF cylinder adjacent to the bond due to stress induced by the dissimilar strain curves of the two materials, whereupon the weakened cylinder snap buckled and collapsed inward from the end. This is consistent with how the remains of the cylinder are seen packed into the aft dome.

I have followed Scott Manley for many years now and have learned to trust his judgement, especially in matters of aerospace engineering (which this is not). To me he seems driven by genuine curiosity rather than a lust for fame and fortune.

Those remains look more like the hull liner, the deck, its supports and whatever components were on and behind the aft bulkhead along with the bulkhead itself. This was not a leaking joint, it was an instantaneous collapse of the hull with a massive and violent inrush of water at extreme velocity. But that is just my opinion and hopefully we might be enlightened if or when real experts analyze the wreckage.

Nothing against Manley, I enjoy his aerospace stuff and my comment about click seekers was not aimed directly at him. Though, I suggest he look more closely at crack propagation in filament wound carbon fiber structures.

The two materials lab reports in the NTSB Docket make it clear that it is indeed the CF tube that has been stuffed into the aft dome. There’s a ton of pictures and strain response curves and so on if you’re into crack propagation and such.