The NY Times chatted with John regarding Kings Point in this article posted today: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/education/at-troubled-merchant-marine-academy-hope-for-a-turnaround.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share
Please note, John’s comments are his personal opinion and do not reflect an official stance by gCaptain.
It’s still the same old story, make the shoe fit. Blue Water is gone so now let’s make the mission Brown Water as if it is vital for our national security to maintain a Federal Academy for Brown Water and/or Off Shore needs. Can you imagine a US Naval Academy with no US Navy, a West Point with no US Army, US Air Force Academy with no USAF aircraft, USCGA with no ships to staff, yet we maintain a United States Merchant Marine Academy when there is no US Merchant Marine to speak of. Perhaps there is something I don’t know working in the background. If so I got a dam good idea what it is.
““It’s no different from what we would offer to other industries that are involved in transportation,” he says, citing taxpayer support of Amtrak, or federal jurisdiction over the airline industry.”
What the hell is that idiot smoking? Actually we might be better off if he spent some time smoking something because he sure as hell doesn’t operate in our reality. Does that fool honestly believe that dumping $85 million into the KP cesspool is subsidizing the maritime industry in some fashion?
I never had the slightest doubt that MARAD was out of touch and incompetent but this latest statement really highlights just how badly it is run.
Finding non-white males in that photo is like trying to find Waldo.
K.C.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;80621]Finding non-white males in that photo is like trying to find Waldo.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
That’s funny - true - still funny.
It was exactly the same back in my years at KP, a half century ago.
Where is all this leading?
They keep on making the shoe fit, clever folks, they be.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;80599]yet we maintain a United States Merchant Marine Academy when there is no US Merchant Marine to speak of. [/QUOTE]Where does it say you have to sail deep sea to be part of the Merchant Marine? Whether you are on a 95 ton fleeting tug building tows on the Mississippi or a 95,000 tanker moving crude internationally you are still moving Merchant goods in a Maritime environment.
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;80627]Where does it say you have to sail deep sea to be part of the Merchant Marine? Whether you are on a 95 ton fleeting tug building tows on the Mississippi or a 95,000 tanker moving crude internationally you are still moving Merchant goods in a Maritime environment.[/QUOTE]
KPEngineer, is it vital for our national security to maintain a Federal Academy for Brown Water and/or Off Shore needs? I don’t think it is but that’s only my opinion. I’ve posted many times that the facilities at Kings Point should be made available to every active United States Merchant Seaman, Licensed and Unlicensed, for upgrading and training. State of the Art Training Programs need to be added and this expense should upon the industries who benefit not the US Tax Payer. Eliminate the regimental system whose only existence is to satisfy the US Navy. KP does not need to produce Naval Officers, it needs to produce capable seamen in today’s maritime market. So, again, it boils down to my question, is it vital for our national security to maintain a Federal Academy for Brown Water and/or Off Shore needs?
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;80629]KPEngineer, is it vital for our national security to maintain a Federal Academy for Brown Water and/or Off Shore needs? I don’t think it is but that’s only my opinion. I’ve posted many times that the facilities at Kings Point should be made available to every active United States Merchant Seaman, Licensed and Unlicensed, for upgrading and training. State of the Art Training Programs need to be added and this expense should upon the industries who benefit not the US Tax Payer. Eliminate the regimental system whose only existence is to satisfy the US Navy. KP does not need to produce Naval Officers, it needs to produce capable seamen in today’s maritime market. So, again, it boils down to my question, is it vital for our national security to maintain a Federal Academy for Brown Water and/or Off Shore needs?[/QUOTE]
I don’t much disagree with you. My only intention was to point out the seeming omission of thousands of sailors who contribute to our economy in the maritime industry simply because they don’t go much outside the seabouy.
The industry is changing and I see nothing wrong with KP trying to keep up. I think KP is entering a change or die phase and whatever the changes over the next 5 years or so I think are make or break for KP. I don’t mind waiting to see what they come up with before I jump on the close it bandwagon.
I don’t really see KP contributing much to the “national security” but more to the economic interests. We live in a technological age and both technology and regulation will continue to increase at an exponential rate. I see the seagoing trades as a mix of old and new, and an ideal crew a mix of hawespipe and academy.
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;80633]I don’t much disagree with you. My only intention was to point out the seeming omission of thousands of sailors who contribute to our economy in the maritime industry simply because they don’t go much outside the seabouy.
The industry is changing and I see nothing wrong with KP trying to keep up. I think KP is entering a change or die phase and whatever the changes over the next 5 years or so I think are make or break for KP. I don’t mind waiting to see what they come up with before I jump on the close it bandwagon.
I don’t really see KP contributing much to the “national security” but more to the economic interests. We live in a technological age and both technology and regulation will continue to increase at an exponential rate. I see the seagoing trades as a mix of old and new, and an ideal crew a mix of hawespipe and academy.[/QUOTE]
Well why not have a Federal Truck Driving Academy, a Federal Railroad Academy, a Federal Air Lines Academy (of course we all ready have several filling that need)?
None of this blue water vs. brown water crap is worth one effing bit! The entire premise is that there is NO NEED WHATSOEVER that the taxpaying US citizen should be funding the educations of students that can be provided by the state school system for less than 1/5th the cost! THAT ALONE IS WHAT MATTERS!
If these men and women are essential to the maritime transportation system of the US then the government should be using that money to pay the tuitions these state academy students. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER between a state maritime grad and a KP’er except for the cost!
[QUOTE=c.captain;80644]None of this blue water vs. brown water crap is worth one effing bit! The entire premise is that there is NO NEED WHATSOEVER that the taxpaying US citizen should be funding the educations of students that can be provided by the state school system for less than 1/5th the cost! THAT ALONE IS WHAT MATTERS!
If these men and women are essential to the maritime transportation system of the US then the government should be using that money to pay the tuitions these state academy students. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER between a state maritime grad and a KP’er except for the cost![/QUOTE]
The U.S. does already give money to states for education. Now yes I agree with you that if KP closed they could give more money. But I will support KP because of the fact I want to attend and I know graduates that are very thankful for that education.
KP is a typical government program that will probably continue to exist on the basis of inertia and habit no matter what comes. So we might as well make the most of it.
KP should start charging the same tuition as the state schools so that the school is not two-blocked with kids who do not have any genuine interest in going to sea, but are just looking for a free college education. Charging tuition should increase the number kids interested in going to sea, and make going to sea more necessary for those with student loans to pay off.
This would also force KP to be much more “market-driven.” In other words KP would have to compete with the state schools to offer a more relevant education that students are willing to pay for.
If KP wants to be relevant, it should offer a short (30 to 90 days) program for existing mariners to upgrade from master 1600 to 3rd mate unlimited without any tonnage limitations.
KP should also be offering all required USCG / STCW training, and DP training, for existing mariners.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;80648]KP is a typical government program that will probably continue to exist on the basis of inertia and habit no matter what comes. So we might as well make the most of it.[/QUOTE]
You are correct. Kings Point and its alumni association are Siamese Twins, totally connected at the hip, while these twins wine and dine members of Congress Kings Point is safe. Kings Point is fortunate, 95%, or more, of the US tax paying citizens never heard of this once proud institution. If they were so informed KP would have been closed several decades ago.
Getting quoted in the NYT is some great free publicity for this site. Nice job. It also puts your anti-KP bias out in the open, which is also nice. The NYT quoting this forum as a source on KP is laughable and lazy. The forum has less than 800 members and it looks like only about 100 comment regularly, about 20 of whom call for KP to be closed. Hardly a grass roots movement.
Too bad that the article didn’t mention that the former Deputy Maritime Administrator, a political appointee, was involved in the off campus shenanigans. I wouldn’t expect the NYT to go there.
I do concur with this quote: the curriculum “is not focused on the new age of technologically advanced offshore rigs, sub-sea engineering and development of new ideas for port structures and systems.”
Which of the academies is focused on these facets of the off shore oil and gas industry?
I’ve been away for a while at sea out at the pointy end of the spear, but it is great find on my return that:
-KP is full funded
-Has a new superintendent and commandant
-Infrastructure work on the campus is underway (or soon will be)
-KP will be getting another training ship (not really that important but nice anyway)
-The new strategic plan has finally been published
-KP continues to produce high quality and well educated graduates
-KP continues to be highly selective and hard to get into (thousands apply - about three hundred accepted)
Have a great day
[QUOTE=Whiplasher;80647]The U.S. does already give money to states for education. Now yes I agree with you that if KP closed they could give more money. But I will support KP because of the fact I want to attend and I know graduates that are very thankful for that education.[/QUOTE]
The US taxpayer not a charity for you nor should it be. Unless you go active duty, then you should have to pay for your education like all the state school students.
btw, the state schols only get subsidized by getting their ships provided by MarAd and even that needs to go away. That too is a waste of money.
[QUOTE=Uniblab;80678]Getting quoted in the NYT is some great free publicity for this site. Nice job. It also puts your anti-KP bias out in the open, which is also nice. The NYT quoting this forum as a source on KP is laughable and lazy. The forum has less than 800 members and it looks like only about 100 comment regularly, about 20 of whom call for KP to be closed. Hardly a grass roots movement.
Too bad that the article didn’t mention that the former Deputy Maritime Administrator, a political appointee, was involved in the off campus shenanigans. I wouldn’t expect the NYT to go there.
I do concur with this quote: the curriculum “is not focused on the new age of technologically advanced offshore rigs, sub-sea engineering and development of new ideas for port structures and systems.”
Which of the academies is focused on these facets of the off shore oil and gas industry?
I’ve been away for a while at sea out at the pointy end of the spear, but it is great find on my return that:
-KP is full funded
-Has a new superintendent and commandant
-Infrastructure work on the campus is underway (or soon will be)
-KP will be getting another training ship (not really that important but nice anyway)
-The new strategic plan has finally been published
-KP continues to produce high quality and well educated graduates
-KP continues to be highly selective and hard to get into (thousands apply - about three hundred accepted)[/QUOTE]
every point of yours is irrelevant sir…I’ve asked you before to provide clear and undeniable justification that the US federal government gets ANYTHING UNIQUE and CRITICAL FOR THE NATION for the $80+ million per year that is spends at KP?
Btw, thanks for returning…I’ll be happy to give you the “pointy end of my spear” and have this debate with you all over again.
[QUOTE=Uniblab;80678]I’ve been away for a while at sea out at the pointy end of the spear,[/QUOTE]
Welcome back to the States, Captain Uniblab, where did your sea legs carry you this time?
Got any sea stories to share?
[QUOTE=c.captain;80680]every point of yours is irrelevant sir…I’ve asked you before to provide clear and undeniable justification that the US federal government gets ANYTHING UNIQUE and CRITICAL FOR THE NATION for the $80+ million per year that is spends at KP?
Btw, thanks for returning…I’ll be happy to give you the “pointy end of my spear” and have this debate with you all over again.[/QUOTE]
Oh goodie - best stock-up on some popcorn.
[QUOTE=c.captain;80680]every point of yours is irrelevant sir…I’ve asked you before to provide clear and undeniable justification that the US federal government gets ANYTHING UNIQUE and CRITICAL FOR THE NATION for the $80+ million per year that is spends at KP?
Btw, thanks for returning…I’ll be happy to give you the “pointy end of my spear” and have this debate with you all over again.[/QUOTE]
Well just to add to the pot here are are my two cents.
The US government does get things from the people that graduate KP but they are not UNIQUE and CRITICAL but neither is the Coat Guard Academy or the other ones for that matter. Every once and awhile you might get some KP grad the becomes rich and he pays a lot in taxes to the US but that’s it. and c.captain if you don’t want to pay for the school why not just move?
[QUOTE=Uniblab;80678]Getting quoted in the NYT is some great free publicity for this site. Nice job. It also puts your anti-KP bias out in the open, which is also nice. The NYT quoting this forum as a source on KP is laughable and lazy. The forum has less than 800 members and it looks like only about 100 comment regularly, about 20 of whom call for KP to be closed. Hardly a grass roots movement.
Too bad that the article didn’t mention that the former Deputy Maritime Administrator, a political appointee, was involved in the off campus shenanigans. I wouldn’t expect the NYT to go there.
I do concur with this quote: the curriculum “is not focused on the new age of technologically advanced offshore rigs, sub-sea engineering and development of new ideas for port structures and systems.”
Which of the academies is focused on these facets of the off shore oil and gas industry?
I’ve been away for a while at sea out at the pointy end of the spear, but it is great find on my return that:
-KP is full funded
-Has a new superintendent and commandant
-Infrastructure work on the campus is underway (or soon will be)
-KP will be getting another training ship (not really that important but nice anyway)
-The new strategic plan has finally been published
-KP continues to produce high quality and well educated graduates
-KP continues to be highly selective and hard to get into (thousands apply - about three hundred accepted)
Have a great day[/QUOTE]
I would like to address Uniblab’s list of great things
-Kings Point if fully funded? Well funded enough