If there are other threads discussing this I apologize in advance.
My letter to the Nautical Institute (below) sums up what it is that’s upsettin me. I realize there’s not a snowballs chance in hell my letter will help. I just had to get it off my chest and let them know. What do you guys think? And before ya’ll say it. Yes I’m sucking it up and moving on with my quals under the old scheme. But it at least made me feel better to write the letter…
Dear Sir or Madam
I am writing to request, no beg, you to re-consider one specific extremely un-fair part of the old/new scheme transition. I am referring to the penalty imparted upon operators that have completed Basic DP before December 31, 2014 but not yet attained their Unlimited DP.
Recently our company just came out with an email stating the importance of obtaining the Unlimited DP certification. I took Basic in mid 2014 and have logged approximately 65 dp days to date. I find it extremely un-fair that my someone on the new scheme with less than 15 days logged will obtain their certification well ahead of me.
This is a great in-justice to me (and others in my position). Holding us back while others races past us in terms of accomplishment is just not right. Be it for promotion at our current company or if we had to sit in a recruiting office trying to get hired, the new schemer will be able to boast Unlimited DP on their resume making them a much more desirable candidate.
No offense intended but it appears folks sitting in an office (no matter how much previous sea time you may have) came up with this ruling without due regard to the significant career implications of the operators on the vessels. I was told the reason you had to do this was because you wouldn’t have been able to handle the huge in-flux of applications if you allow everyone meeting the new requirements to upgrade. Whether that is accurate or there is another reason please focus on us human beings striving to do a good job, be competitive at work, get ahead and in some cases just keep their job and please re-consider your decision.
you speak for many disgruntled mariners including myself. assuming you haven’t and probably will
not get a reply as the NI undoubtedly receives a letter like this daily. Kudos nonetheless
[QUOTE=DirtyRodriguez;158958]you speak for many disgruntled mariners including myself. assuming you haven’t and probably will
not get a reply as the NI undoubtedly receives a letter like this daily. Kudos nonetheless[/QUOTE]
For those of us how entered into the old scheme in good faith with a great expenditure of time, money, and effort, but have not yet acquired a significant number of DP days, the Nautical Institute has defrauded us. At the very least, we should be able to elect which scheme (old or new) that we want to follow.
This is what happens when the USCG hands training over to a foreign “club” that writes its own rules.
It seems more than odd that the CG will not accept foreign STCW training (that is supposed to be universally standardized and accepted by all port states) yet will allow DP to be managed by a foreign company with the power to unilaterally and arbitrarily change the standards to meet whatever their desires dejour …
Your letter should go to the CG commandant and your elected representative. Why should a foreign corporation determine your ability to work?
[QUOTE=Steamer;159044]This is what happens when the USCG hands training over to a foreign “club” that writes its own rules.
It seems more than odd that the CG will not accept foreign STCW training (that is supposed to be universally standardized and accepted by all port states) yet will allow DP to be managed by a foreign company with the power to unilaterally and arbitrarily change the standards to meet whatever their desires dejour …
Your letter should go to the CG commandant and your elected representative. Why should a foreign corporation determine your ability to work?[/QUOTE]
Because it’s a international industry. We need international rules. And a non profit company in London is the best of a lot of bad solutions.
But i have to admit that I’m pissed off, the last changes to the scheme is frustrating.
[QUOTE=Kraken;159045]Because it’s a international industry. We need international rules. And a non profit company in London is the best of a lot of bad solutions.
But i have to admit that I’m pissed off, the last changes to the scheme is frustrating.[/QUOTE]
The NI provides a completely unacceptable level of service to its members pursuing DP certification, and they are completely unaccountable.
[QUOTE=Kraken;159045]Because it’s a international industry. We need international rules. And a non profit company in London is the best of a lot of bad solutions.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, right … then please tell us why the CG will not accept STCW courses taken outside the US? STCW is an international set of rules for an international industry and it is not too much of a stretch to imagine that there are schools outside the USA that deliver training equal or better than some CG approved schools.
I would love to hear the CG rationale for going along with the NI as the sole source of DP certification. I would also love to hear why that explanation does not apply to STCW training providers. If the CG demands a certificate then it is incumbent on the USCG to make sure training for that certificate is available and approved just like any other required course leading to a certificate.
If the NI can grab that kind of authority for training and the CG blesses the club, why shouldn’t that mariner’s association that popped up here not long ago looking for members be able to do the same thing? At least they are US based and the CG can actually see who and what they are.
I said it when they came up with the NI DP thing, it is a scam, a fraud, and a travesty that the CG even recognizes them and their certificates.
The entire NI certification is a joke. What is required to be a NI certified DP operator? Correct me if I am wrong. A one week class and then hang around on the bridge of a DP vessel for a year and be signed off by one of your friends or co-workers who got certified the same way?
My God, most of the “certified” DP operators I have seen lately would wet their pants if the desk went dead and they had to actually control the vessel. It is unlike before when you learned to control the vessel first and foremost, DP was like the autopilot that reduced fatigue. Who came up with the need for DP people to be “certified” anyway? The NI? Did the class societies and flag states decide to pawn off this “certification” to some BS outfit thereby avoiding a class society or flag state taking responsibility for the competence of DP operators? Where was the IMO during this process?
As far as I am concerned the latest crop of DP “certified” people fresh out of school aren’t even real mariners, they are over rated and over paid considering the minimal qualifications the NI requires. Sitting in class for a four years, going out on a student cruise for a few weeks and then sitting on a bridge for a year in front of a DP desk does not a mariner make. Give me any day an old school box boat captain, tanker, anchor boat, tug boat or supply boat master that can control a vessel, dock, hold position etc., and only uses DP when things are routine and do not require any judgement skills over any of these recent guys that never handled a vessel in close quarters or even docked one with a tug.
I shudder to think what would happen to most DP drilling vessels out there when the DP desk dies, but then the NI never said their certified DP guys can handle a boat or ship once out of DP.
Their customer service sucks! I emailed them for clarification about filling out my logbook (question related to two different masters/dpos during my hitch). No response. So I call and after having an un-believably difficult time getting the guy to understand my question they told me what I should do. The guy took my email address to get me a new set of instructions which he told me would answer my question. Never got that email and I’m pretty certain it wouldn’t have addressed my question. Anyway I requested written confirmation of what he told me. He said I have to submit my question via their new “alexis” web-site. He assured me if i put it to his attention he’d get back to me quickly. I complied and naturally have not heard from him. I also left a voice mail. Ill probably submit my book and be told its wrong and that I need a whole new book and to track down all signers to re-sign. Aaaggh this whole NI thing is f’in ridiculous. They suck!
[QUOTE=Steamer;159114]Yeah, right … then please tell us why the CG will not accept STCW courses taken outside the US? STCW is an international set of rules for an international industry and it is not too much of a stretch to imagine that there are schools outside the USA that deliver training equal or better than some CG approved schools.
I would love to hear the CG rationale for going along with the NI as the sole source of DP certification. I would also love to hear why that explanation does not apply to STCW training providers. If the CG demands a certificate then it is incumbent on the USCG to make sure training for that certificate is available and approved just like any other required course leading to a certificate.
If the NI can grab that kind of authority for training and the CG blesses the club, why shouldn’t that mariner’s association that popped up here not long ago looking for members be able to do the same thing? At least they are US based and the CG can actually see who and what they are.
I said it when they came up with the NI DP thing, it is a scam, a fraud, and a travesty that the CG even recognizes them and their certificates.[/QUOTE]
I can’t answer way US doesn’t follow STCW, United States has signed all the agreements. I reckon that it’s like with everything else USA participates in, you like to be the “special” kid in class. And you can’t blame NI that some people scam the system. It is a reason things are so God damn slow, they got hundreds of assholes trying to play the system. In some countries you can buy certificates. And a non profit company do not have the resources to crack down on it.
[QUOTE=Hawespiper5;159170]Their customer service sucks! I emailed them for clarification about filling out my logbook (question related to two different masters/dpos during my hitch). No response. So I call and after having an un-believably difficult time getting the guy to understand my question they told me what I should do. The guy took my email address to get me a new set of instructions which he told me would answer my question. Never got that email and I’m pretty certain it wouldn’t have addressed my question. Anyway I requested written confirmation of what he told me. He said I have to submit my question via their new “alexis” web-site. He assured me if i put it to his attention he’d get back to me quickly. I complied and naturally have not heard from him. I also left a voice mail. Ill probably submit my book and be told its wrong and that I need a whole new book and to track down all signers to re-sign. Aaaggh this whole NI thing is f’in ridiculous. They suck![/QUOTE]
How hard could it be? You use one page for each master. So if the first master is from 12.03.15 - 22.03.15 and the next from 22.03.1 - 30.03.15 you start one page from 12.03.15 - 22.03.15 and a new page from 23.03.15 - 30.03.15 and get each master to sign the period he is on board. Didn’t they explain it on the basic course?
If the NI is so great, why is the NMD going to its own certification scheme? As I understand it, the NMD scheme does not require any particular amount of DP seatime; it requires examinations and demonstration of DP competence for a particular type of vessel on a simulator.
The DP guidelines for training come from the IMCA. As I understand it the IMO is working on a DP certification scheme.
Each flag state should issue STCW endorsements for DP (its a navigational and maritime safety function).
The NI has completely bumbled and botched handling the DP certification process. DP certification should be (and I predict will be) taken away from them. It cannot come too soon.
Even if at an international level there should be more agencies to offer certification. This creates competition based on customer service if for no other good reason. The NI has for far too long held a monopoly over us on this certification which has allowed their customer service to become all but non-existent. Really that is the only gripe that most people have with NI.
And how is US courts going too enforce a ruling on a British company? DP certificate is industry demanded and is build on a industry and IMO standards. I can’t see where US law would have a say in the matter. Only results would be that the NI certificates are worthless in the US.
[QUOTE=Kraken;159194] Only results would be that the NI certificates are worthless in the US.[/QUOTE]
That’s a good start … if DP certification is going to be required of US mariners then the CG should approve US training facilities and courses. Grandfather the existing certificate holders by issuing a US certificate based on the NI paper and, just like a firefighting course completion certificate from Bumfukistan, simply stop recognizing it as anything other than a pretty piece of paper when held by a US mariner after such and such a date.
I would still like to know how the CG ever allowed this situation to exist in the first place. Who got paid?
[QUOTE=Steamer;159210]That’s a good start … if DP certification is going to be required of US mariners then the CG should approve US training facilities and courses. Grandfather the existing certificate holders by issuing a US certificate based on the NI paper and, just like a firefighting course completion certificate from Bumfukistan, simply stop recognizing it as anything other than a pretty piece of paper when held by a US mariner after such and such a date.
I would still like to know how the CG ever allowed this situation to exist in the first place. Who got paid?[/QUOTE]
Nice way to making yourself worthless on the international market. Are you going to hand over Brazil and West Africa to us squareheads?
[QUOTE=Steamer;159210]That’s a good start … if DP certification is going to be required of US mariners then the CG should approve US training facilities and courses. Grandfather the existing certificate holders by issuing a US certificate based on the NI paper and, just like a firefighting course completion certificate from Bumfukistan, simply stop recognizing it as anything other than a pretty piece of paper when held by a US mariner after such and such a date.
I would still like to know how the CG ever allowed this situation to exist in the first place. Who got paid?[/QUOTE]
The CG only found out vessels had DP about 5 years ago.
