This is not a joke. This policy is super discriminating against the LGBT communities! Where are there quotas? I’m thinking 15% LGBTs, 10% left handers, 8.3% midgets (not dwarfs) with a few other things in mind as well. We need to bust out the Fitzpatrick scale and assure were meeting equality against all skin colors too!
It seems that the Navy has decided to lead the way in this ridiculous PC crap. It will come back to bite them if the economy ever gets going, and they need people.
The Navy department also wants to lower fitness standards for Marines, for the sole purpose of more females:
[I]If the Marine Corps and Navy are to reflect the makeup of the nation the services defend, it must recruit and retain more women, Mabus said. A more diverse force is stronger, he said.
“Both our platforms and our career paths will allow for equal service opportunities,” he said. “That is why I’m personally committed to opening all operational billets to women.”[/I]
They’re so in the hold of the PC crowd that they simply discount the obvious physical strength difference between men and women.
Chaplains in the military are also getting heat for teaching exactly what their religion prescribes, which is often at odds with the PC line.
I guess saying only 10% of a crew can be women is not Discrimination.
Saying Women can not service on Subs is NOT Discrimination.
Kinda sounding like the USA back in the Good Ol’ Days wouldn’t you say???
I’ve served on a vessel in the USN with women assigned to it. It had it’s problems but nothing that big.
I’ll admit I wouldn’t want to do it again, because of all the PC crap but in the grand scheme of things nothing was that big of an issue.
Look at the race diversity of the USN. It runs pretty close to Population. I think they mixed the Latinos and Philippine population into one group though. This is the Navy, I do not think the PT’s should be lessened just so the female could pass.
My theory is equal pay means Equal work.
[QUOTE=AB Murph;162246]I guess saying only 10% of a crew can be women is not Discrimination.
Saying Women can not service on Subs is NOT Discrimination.
Kinda sounding like the USA back in the Good Ol’ Days wouldn’t you say???
[/QUOTE]
I’m confused by your comment, as mine was full of sarcasm. My belief is standards are standards and qualified is qualified. Having quotas is downright discriminatory and idiotic. A ship should be made up of the best sailors, not some arbitrary number to make this PC world feel good.
I must have mistaken your post. I agree with you 100%, put the person there and let them do it. Screw it if it is a woman or man, Black or White or Latino or Asian.
I remember when a USN boat crashed with an all female crew on the bridge. Big deal was made about it but not the 10,000 crashes before where the bridge crew was all male.
Honestly, I didn’t like it because of the PC as you are talking about but I enjoyed the females being on the boat.
Sorry for interrupting your post wrong.
I’m sorry, are you afraid some lowly woman might outdo you at button-mashing?
Because that’s where today’s Navy is heading. It’s far different from when I was in, way back in “ancient” times.\
I suggest you suck it up and deal because we aren’t going anywhere.
I keep asking them about even hiring 1 woman here. All those out of work adult film actors, and 2 open spots on this boat. Someone should ask why there arent more sluts on workboats, nevermind the navy. Just my little bit of sarcasm for the evening. :rolleyes:
I haven’t worked with a woman yet who doesnt need help doing the most basic of deckhand abilities. I was on a boat once with a female deckhand and would routinely get woke up off watch to catch a line on the dock, make off a ship line for assist work, or make up to a barge. Then I would get chewed for dragging during my watch. Luckily she decided tugboats wernt for her very quickly.
[QUOTE=catherder;162259]I’m sorry, are you afraid some lowly woman might outdo you at button-mashing?
Because that’s where today’s Navy is heading. It’s far different from when I was in, way back in “ancient” times.\
I suggest you suck it up and deal because we aren’t going anywhere.
:)[/QUOTE]
Ewww what a nasty response from a respectable gcaptain member and sailor. I guess you take my post as anti feminist, when making quotas about gender is belittling to females and sexist to begin with. Isn’t having a closer golf tee and lower PT standards humiliating enough? That is not a funny question, but completely serious. Wouldn’t you take more pride in accomplishing something with equal standards instead of being given an advantage or subsidized into a program. It seems like equal opportunity is what we should be pushing for, not commands trying to meet quotas by promoting a female instead of promoting the best person. So much for the best person for the job, lets make it about what sex you are.
In any case, I would be game for a 99.63% female crew for a 276 personal ship.
Hmmmmm, I’m not a betting man but those sound like good odds. 
I’d rather work with Catherder then many of the other people I’ve met over the years. Just from knowing her on here, it sounds like shes exactly the kind of person anyone would want in their crew. Of course I’m also all for equal standards. If they lower the bar though it’s not gonna change the makeup percentage-wise. Wouldn’t it just be the same ratio but with poorer performance overall.
I agree with LoneStar, we don’t need the PC police to tell us how to crew our vessels. Best person for the job, period.
Man,woman,black,white …etc…etc…
What does the term political correctness mean, aside for “things reactionaries don’t like”?
It’s in Webster and is nothing like the link you posted.
[QUOTE=BargeMonkey;162265]I keep asking them about even hiring 1 woman here. All those out of work adult film actors, and 2 open spots on this boat. Someone should ask why there arent more sluts on workboats, nevermind the navy. Just my little bit of sarcasm for the evening. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, as it would make the working environment a lot more laid back and less tense. I wish all sailors had more access to port time and the types mentioned above.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star;162248]I’m confused by your comment, as mine was full of sarcasm. My belief is standards are standards and qualified is qualified. Having quotas is downright discriminatory and idiotic. A ship should be made up of the best sailors, not some arbitrary number to make this PC world feel good.[/QUOTE]
It’s easy for someone on the other side of the fence to cast stones. Quotas are necessary because women and minorities will be pushed out. It is not just women, any type of minority in any type of environment will be discriminated against. It is just our nature. i.e. a black kid going to a white school, a white kid going to a back school etc.
Basing who is “best” purely off of physical standards is ridiculous. If physical strength were the sole deciding factor on who is “best”, why do we even have human’s at all? Why not train baboons to do the job?
I was one that never cared who or what you were as long as you could do the job.
Years ago, we had a Female Mate. The time had come to get the tow wire ready to make up to the barge.
The Mate and I (CE) when back to pay out some wire on the stern. I showed her the TW Controls and them headed down to the Stern Deck to pull the wire out. She stopped me and asked what I “Usually did” during this. I said well usually I run the TW. So, she said I will pull the wire. After trying to bump the machine as slow as I could. she had “Pulled” about 3 feet of wire out and had 3 loose turns of wire on the drum. At this point I told her to run the machine and I went down and pulled the slack off of the drum and got the wire ready.
She went to the Captain to complain. He sits the two of us down for “The Talk”. I looked at him and said Capt, you Can’t pull that wire out either, so I am supposed to let my machine and or wire get messed up just because someone can’t admit that they just can’t do a job?
I treated this Mate no differently than I would have anyone else. NO ONE can do every job, the ones that learn this quickly usually turn into good crew mates.
Just to be clear, I had no problems before or after this incident with her and she was pretty good to work with.
[QUOTE=cajaya;162386]
It’s easy for someone on the other side of the fence to cast stones. Quotas are necessary because women and minorities will be pushed out. It is not just women, any type of minority in any type of environment will be discriminated against. It is just our nature. i.e. a black kid going to a white school, a white kid going to a back school etc.[/QUOTE]
Thats the root of the argument. If the belief is most people are sexist and irrational, than I guess we need quotas (many believe this). The other side is pushing for equal opportunity and fair treatment no matter the sex, race, skin color, hand dominance, etc.
[QUOTE=cajaya;162386]
Basing who is “best” purely off of physical standards is ridiculous. If physical strength were the sole deciding factor on who is “best”, why do we even have human’s at all? Why not train baboons to do the job?[/QUOTE]
Physical standards does not mean “best”. Best means the most capable, skilled, and adapt at their job in all capacities. If physical standards is a part of it, so be it.
So what kind of standard would show who is most capable and skilled in areas that don’t involve the physical aspect? What if someone is strong as an ox but doesn’t know how to troubleshoot worth a damn?
I think 25% is a nice goal. They are not even seeking 50%. In all honesty I feel they will have a hard time even finding 25%. Most women don’t want anything to do with working on the water and away from home, but I think the 25% goal for a quota will help those that do have a fighting chance.
And most people are sexist, racist, irrational or bias in one form or another. That is just a fact of the matter. Myself included.
If you want to talk about case stories, a while back, I had to show a wiper the simplest thing of how to put a gasket on a flange correctly. He had it all misaligned and the gasket was all distorted. I tried to show him the proper way (we all know this is a very simple task) and he wanted to sit there and argue with me about it. This guy was as green as you could be, and I had been working my ass off doing all kinds of work(we were in shipyard) as well as electrical repairs. At the end of the day, the C/E preferred him over me. Now, why was that? Was it my work ethic? Was it my lack of skill level? I didn’t have problems with anybody, I was too busy working, and I didn’t hang out with anybody outside of work to make even more sure there was no chance of friction, and the chief still did not want me there, and neither did he (the wiper). This is only one story. I have many stories like this.
It is not always like this, not everyone is sexist and idiotic, but there are those that are. Even if someone doesn’t feel that way themselves, simply being around others that are can make them feel that way and share those same feelings. “Friendship can be a dangerous enemy, a seduction of the mind lying beyond the reach of investigation”.
This is why affirmative action and quotas are necessary. It is not being sexist against men, it is giving women a fraction of the chance of what men have.
Have you ever looked at yourself as the reason for “this is only one story. I have many stories like this.”?
[QUOTE=coldduck;162402]Have you ever looked at yourself as the reason for “this is only one story. I have many stories like this.”?[/QUOTE]
You are not on my level intellectually so there is no possible way you and I could ever have a meaningful discussion on this. Or on any topic for that matter. Come back when you have something more relevant to say or after you have sharpened up your skills a bit.