I strongly disagree , this assumes we are all racist and/or sexist… It is NOT human nature !
I operated as a hiring manager for several years. You ALWAYS hire the best people that apply. They may not be the very best available , but they are the best that you or your company has attracted. When you as a company or corporation begin working off this “quota” system for the sake of another persons idea of “equality” you begin to weaken your company and will eventually destroy it from the inside out. You begin to put people into positions to fill a quota as opposed to putting the most qualified person in that position.
[QUOTE=St@nley68;162408]I strongly disagree , this assumes we are all racist and/or sexist… It is NOT human nature !
I operated as a hiring manager for several years. You ALWAYS hire the best people that apply. They may not be the very best available , but they are the best that you or your company has attracted. When you as a company or corporation begin working off this “quota” system for the sake of another persons idea of “equality” you begin to weaken your company and will eventually destroy it from the inside out. You begin to put people into positions to fill a quota as opposed to putting the most qualified person in that position.[/QUOTE]
So, by you saying you operated as a hiring manager, you admit you have never actually worked in the environment? Or seen the things I have mentioned and many I have not, first hand?
Lolz. I’m going to get my popcorn.
No, I am currently operating as a Captain in the Gulf.
By saying I worked as a hiring manager at one point in my career I am saying that I understand first hand the difficulties of hiring good people and that there is no place for quotas in shipping or any other business for that matter.
You are all right, BP and the Navy and the rest of the world that is partaking in inclusivity programs are all total morons. They need to get with the program and be more likeminded with the folks on Gcaptain.
[QUOTE=cajaya;162399]I think 25% is a nice goal. They are not even seeking 50%. In all honesty I feel they will have a hard time even finding 25%. Most women don’t want anything to do with working on the water and away from home, but I think the 25% goal for a quota will help those that do have a fighting chance.
And most people are sexist, racist, irrational or bias in one form or another. That is just a fact of the matter. Myself included.
At the end of the day, the C/E preferred him over me. Now, why was that? Was it my work ethic? Was it my lack of skill level? I didn’t have problems with anybody, I was too busy working, and I didn’t hang out with anybody outside of work to make even more sure there was no chance of friction, and the chief still did not want me there, and neither did he (the wiper). This is only one story. I have many stories like this.
This is why affirmative action and quotas are necessary. It is not being sexist against men, it is giving women a fraction of the chance of what men have.[/QUOTE]
After reading some of your recent posts I have a couple of questions for you. If I remember correctly, you have not been in the Commercial side of this Industry for very long but for someone just now beginning to read your posts you sure sound like you have many many years of working at sea on Commercial Vessels, so Just how long have you been sailing Commercial? You have also posted about having to work with those that know much less than you, so please list what License or ratings that you have on your MMC?
I will hazard a guest that if you were ever able to work on a Vessel that was manned by this 25% Female Crew, you would still find yourself unhappy. There is a recurring theme on most of your posts where you are the best and do everything right but you are either picked on or someone else is picked over you for a job. With this said maybe it is time for you to start looking in the Mirror to see if Maybe the problem starts with you and that huge chip on your shoulder!
[QUOTE=cajaya;162406]You are not on my level intellectually so there is no possible way you and I could ever have a meaningful discussion on this. Or on any topic for that matter. Come back when you have something more relevant to say or after you have sharpened up your skills a bit.[/QUOTE]
So, you do realize that you are Discriminating someone just because YOU may thing that you are a little smarter.
The navy is dead wrong. This isn’t the first time and won’t be the last.
On the other hand , I would be VERY interested in seeing a copy of BP’s Gender Quota policy . Please post a link .
[QUOTE=St@nley68;162408]I strongly disagree , this assumes we are all racist and/or sexist… It is NOT human nature !
I operated as a hiring manager for several years. You ALWAYS hire the best people that apply. They may not be the very best available , but they are the best that you or your company has attracted. When you as a company or corporation begin working off this “quota” system for the sake of another persons idea of “equality” you begin to weaken your company and will eventually destroy it from the inside out. You begin to put people into positions to fill a quota as opposed to putting the most qualified person in that position.[/QUOTE]
At least two errors here, first the assumption that there is no bias in hiring. Secondly the assumption that the only way to overcome bias in hiring is a “quota system”
As to the first error, no need to assume racist/ sexist, ordinary every day bias is more then sufficient to skew results, just google “bias in hiring”
This is from "You’re More Biased Then You Think. This is based on the science of human cognition.
From the article:
“Most of us believe that we are ethical and unbiased. We imagine we’re good decision makers, able to objectively size up a job candidate or a venture deal and reach a fair and rational conclusion that’s in our, and our organization’s, best interests,” writes Harvard University researcher Mahzarin Banaji in Harvard Business Review. "But more than two decades of research confirms that, in reality, most of us fall woefully short of our inflated self-perception."
The assumption that a so-called “quota system” is the only possible solution is incorrect. This is from the same article:
study through the Clayman Institute of Gender Studies at Stanford found that the number of women musicians in orchestras went up from 5% to 25% since the 1970s—a shift that happened when judges began auditioning musicians behind screens so that they could not see them. This isn’t to say that all interviews have to be done blind of course, but that refocusing on the skills that define a candidate can help eliminate biases we may be bringing with us to our decision-making.
Another implicit and incorrect assumption being made is that the only possible way increase the number of women at the work place is to lower standards The idea that everyone in the workplace today got there purely by merit is not even remotely plausible.
[QUOTE=St@nley68;162432]The navy is dead wrong. This isn’t the first time and won’t be the last.
On the other hand , I would be VERY interested in seeing a copy of BP’s Gender Quota policy . Please post a link .[/QUOTE]Just google BP diversity and inclusion. there was an article about it on rigzone
[QUOTE=Tugs;162431 so please list what License or ratings that you have on your MMC?[/QUOTE]
I’ve been duping you all this whole time. I am actually a master mariner. I hold a Master’s license, unlimited tonnage, any oceans as well as a Chief Engineer, Steam, Motor and Gas Turbine, unlimited horsepower. You would be upset too if you had spent all those years getting those licenses only to piddle around on Gcaptain with feeble minded folks about what actually goes on in the workplace in various environments which they may or may not really know anything about at all.
From now on, I would like to be addressed as Ms Cajaya Ms Master Mariner Captain Sir. Thank you.
[QUOTE=St@nley68;162432]The navy is dead wrong. This isn’t the first time and won’t be the last.
On the other hand , I would be VERY interested in seeing a copy of BP’s Gender Quota policy . Please post a link .[/QUOTE]
I don’t know anything about any policy. There was an article about it on rigzone. Just google BP diversity and inclusion.
I swear we really need to take the bottle away from her. Every frikkin time she posts on here.
I think we should treat everyone the same. Judge people based on how there performance is. Cajaya says using quotas balances out against any sexism. If that’s the case then what is there to benefit the people who honestly go out of their way to not use prejudice. If there’s gonna be a quota system wouldn’t I have to do my part to maintain the balance by BEING sexist. Doesn’t this quota system just promote sexism by treating different classes of people differently and holding them to separate standards.
1 Like
I am done posting on here about this. If you have a problem with what is going on, DO something about it. Write to congress, write to the Navy Admiral.
Tell them that you think having a quota of 25% women is discriminating against the 25% of men who could be in those positions. Maybe you could file a class action suit for discrimination against men or for making the hiring manager’s job so much harder because now they have to hire all these women and their aren’t enough butches or women who look like men that qualify.
Be sure to write to BP as well and tell them to stop with the nonsense, because now other companies might be expected to follow suit.
[QUOTE=cajaya;162441]Tell them that you think having a quota of 25% women is discriminating against the 25% of men who could be in those positions.[/QUOTE]
Its discriminatory against the women too! That’s the exact definition of discrimination. You’re treating them differently on the sole basis of what’s in their pants.
[QUOTE=cajaya;162438]Just google BP diversity and inclusion. there was an article about it on rigzone
I’ve been duping you all this whole time. I am actually a master mariner. I hold a Master’s license, unlimited tonnage, any oceans as well as a Chief Engineer, Steam, Motor and Gas Turbine, unlimited horsepower. You would be jaded too if you had spent all those years trying to get those endorsements only to piddle around on Gcaptain with feeble minded folks about what actually goes on in the workplace in various environments which they may or may not really know anything about.
From now on, I would like to be addressed as Ms Cajaya Ms Master Mariner Captain Sir. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
So you go both ways? Damn, that takes a long time to get to that level TWICE, you must be quite old and have much wisdom to share.
With the Navy having about 15% female in active duty, I wonder how the intelligent admiral plans on accomplishing this. This will inevitably get pushed down to recruiters to target females, as it is the only solution. Lower ASVAB scores, who cares! You’re a female, step right up… It is incredibly foolish from so many angles.
[QUOTE=Lone_Star;162447]With the Navy having about 15% female in active duty, I wonder how the intelligent admiral plans on accomplishing this. This will inevitably get pushed down to recruiters to target females, as it is the only solution. Lower ASVAB scores, who cares! You’re a female, step right up… It is incredibly foolish from so many angles.[/QUOTE]
Honestly it’s just ridiculous PC bullshit since so many factors go into manning, but I love to goad the not-so closeted male chauvinist piggies on this board.
[QUOTE=catherder;162469]Honestly it’s just ridiculous PC bullshit since so many factors go into manning, but I love to goad the not-so closeted male chauvinist piggies on this board.[/QUOTE]
Chauvinist, a great descriptive noun. I find that mindset can lead to an avoidance or detrimental mindset of all things seamanship and nautical and an attitude of being a special forces delta SWO or Enlisted. Next thing you know, were turning to port in front of tankers and ignorantly calling the radar repeater the “ARPA” while utilizing mostly AIS inputs. Quick, give me a true bearing with that Pelorus!
Ok Cap… I didn’t say Bias, I Said Racism and sexism. I am aware that we are all biased one way or another, based on how and where we were raised , attended school, life experiences…etc…etc…
Most good hiring managers are neither racist nor sexist.
Jeez, I said “OR”
“…most people are sexist, racist, irrational or bias in one form [B]or[/B] another.”
Meaning any one of those things
[QUOTE=Lone_Star;162447]With the Navy having about 15% female in active duty, I wonder how the intelligent admiral plans on accomplishing this. This will inevitably get pushed down to recruiters to target females, as it is the only solution. Lower ASVAB scores, who cares! You’re a female, step right up… It is incredibly foolish from so many angles.[/QUOTE]
When I was in the process of joining the Coast Guard 6 and half years ago (as a male caucasian), my recuiter told me the only reason I was excepted was becuase I had a high ASVAB score. He then asked if I could prove that I was at least 15% Native American. If I was, I could’ve went to boot camp within two weeks. Instead I had to wait 6 months behind the other whities. Doesn’t matter if you want to join to work on boats and be mariner or just looking for a job, if you’re a minority you’ll get in lickity split.