I am fixing to roll in the mud with pigs. However, before I perform this act, I want to get a feel for the level of training received while wearing the blue suit. Specifically, how do you rate the training you received on the bridge of a NAVY ship (>1600 tons) compared to the “required” STCW training for 2nd/3rd unlimited. I am putting this identical request in the USCG section also because I respect their abilities, traditions, excellent training methods and did 22 years with them.
Here is the information and ground rules I would like to limit this to;
Keep it civil.
You wore NAVY blue.
You earned a 1600 ton or greater license or are actively working on earning one.
You stood QMOW/JOOD or Underway OOD watches on a major cutter.
You were qualified for the above watch (passed a board and received a letter)
How would rate the NAVY PQS program/training to “Approved” STCW training?
You DID NOT graduate from the USNA
If you did graduate from the USNA, how would you rate the Academy training to other
"approved" training.
I want to get a discussion started on this because I have my own opinion and feel pretty strongly about this issue. Before the usual stuff starts up, let me qualify my own situation.
A. I have a lot of free time.
B. I am appealing some policies.
C. I can afford the schools.
D. I am stimulating the economy by creating work (and hopefully jobs) for somebody at the NMC so
they must to work on refuting appeals insteading of issuing form letters.
E. I think it is a cop out the USCG does not recognize their own training.
F. Since the USCG does not recognize their own training, they are violating the STCW Code and
because of that, the CFR’s and endangering lives at sea.
If you want to communicate with me confidentially because any time you question stuff with your license, any entry is made in your file, you must be a member of GCaptain. Unless of course, you know my secret identity.
[I]" Since the USCG does not recognize their own training, they are violating the STCW Code and because of that, the CFR’s and endangering lives at sea."
[/I]What part of STCW and the CFRs are “violated” and how does this endanger lives at sea?
I sympathize with your frustration but it’s probably just as well that the CG keeps a wall between its in-house training and licensing because otherwise everyone who “knows someone” would get out after a couple of years with an unlimited master and or chief engineer ticket in their packet. That would truly endanger lives at sea.
You chose the route, now you have to learn to live with that choice.
I feel that the NMC and STCW have severely underestimated the value of Military shipboard training and watch standing experience…I say this as an former QM who stood QMOW underway watches and am now in the process of obtaining a 1600 / 3rd mate license…
Almost half way through the required STCW courses… I realize that everything that I have done up to this point has been more or less a refresher, with few real challenges…Sure some things have changed, been added or deleted and of course the improved technology of todays wheelhouses has changed… but aside from that I am very disappointed…
I attend these classes hoping to learn something of significant value that I didn’t know before…With few exceptions, I get to repeat basic information that the average QM3 / bridge watch stander would already be well versed in along with filler and fodder from the STCW …It’s quite possible that the order of the courses thus far, may have something to do with this and maybe the last half of my training will reveal some pleasant surprises…I think it’s kinda sick to look forward to stability and meteorology courses but at this point, I can’t wait…
So I guess I’m kinda confused Senior.
I know that NAVY Basic Training after something like 1995 eliminates the need to take PS/SR, Basic Safety and may be a couple others. Since mine was in 1984 I sucked it up and sat through what I needed to. As I pointed in another thread, yer ID card SHOULD get you in the door at MSC Training Facility in Freehold, NJ - that was where I got PS/SR, Basic Safety, CPR-First Aid and both Fire Fighting classes knocked out.
How NAVY/USCG does business vs. the Real World are SO different that I don’t see how you can compare the two? A warship has THREE times the personnel necessary to the same job commercially (minus the warfighting capability). That alone in my mind changes it up as the talent pool is far larger to draw from. But you know this
What exactly do you want? I can sympathize with yer situation but there are full on Commanders here on the board who stood OOD underway for YEARS and they’re doing what they need to as AB’s and OS’s in this economy to get where they want so yer situation ain’t as ‘humbling’ as others.
My watchstanding wasn’t underestimated. I got my AB without having to do assessments as I got my foot in the door in time to take advantage of Policy letter 14-02 (I think that’s the one) before the window closed. Didn’t keep me from having to do that STUPID effin’ flashing Light though - yet another sucked up in the quest of a larger paycheck.
We Hawsepipers are UNWELCOME - the goal IMHO from the Oversight/Regulation weenies is ELIMINATE that avenue of advancement. Fighting it will get none of us anywhere - figuring our way through and around it would be much more effective - again IMHO.
The problem is that despite years of trying to get them to do so, the Navy and Coast Guard have not submitted their training programs for a review and evaluation of whether they meet STCW.
With the Navy, there was some brief, limited progress when some Navy courses/programs were submitted and approved, largely due to the efforts of a Navy MMR reservist on temporary active duty. When his assignment was up, the effort ceased and since then some of the approvals have expired.
There has been less interest from the USCG. The only STCW approvals they have sought were to have their “TCT” (Team Coordination Training) approved for bridge resource management, and BST approval (now expired) for two course at the USCG academy.
The Army (yes they operate vessels, a lot of them) have been the most active and have sought and obtained approval for most of their programs.
As far as “violating the STCW Code” by not accepting USCG training, I don’t think STCW requires acceptiong/approving something that has not bee evaluated for comopliance with STCW. It’s almost certainly a violation of the STCW to accept training that has not been “approved.”
If theUSCG and/or Navy don’t submit it for evaluation, it can’t be approved. If you’re going to invest time in this, I suggest working to get the Navy and the “O” side of the Coast Guard to seek STCW approval rather than complaining about why the training is not accepted.
