They are coyotes of a different color. They are part of the supply chain the human traffickers rely on to deliver their product to the destination they advertise. The “rescue” boats are nothing more than facilitators, they are like those who give booze to drunks because they feel sorry for a drunk with no booze.
It’s a filthy business and those “rescue” boats just make it far more profitable for the traffickers, the coyotes don’t need to sail all the way to Italy any more, all they have to do is get the cargo off the beach.
Those boats should be seized and sunk on entering EU waters and anyone contributing to the operation or funding of them should be charged with human trafficking.
As BBMF has said this is relevant as a maritime issue, but if you want to get into the larger politics, besides mindlessly blowing up “dictators” in the “Middle East” the US and cowardly EU lackeys have been strangling Iran, genociding Yemen on behalf of Saudi terrorists (dictators!) and dumping food aid on and supporting corrupt regimes throughout Africa and Asia, and siphoning the wealth and in the EU’s case, encouraging brain drain from the developing countries. Not every migrant is a true asylum seeker but there would be a hell of a lot fewer of them overall if we had a more open world to begin with
It’s not a maritime issue, it’s a human trafficking issue. The maritime component is comprised of traffickers disguised as compassionate “rescuers.”
Stop all that aid and let the people storm the barricades, and hang the tyrants. History shows they will repeat the process a few times until the survivors figure it out. We feed and arm stone age tribal kleptocrats, maybe it’s time to bury them instead.
Dude, you’re not just missing the point, you’re plainly aiming for something else.
I’m pointing out an inconvenient fact: They understand that they’re doing something stupidly dangerous, and they expect to be rescued. How is this appalling?
I don’t think they understand the danger. They have been told that they will be picked up by a “rescue” ship and delivered to an EU Utopia. The “rescue” ships are an integral part of the human trafficking business.
They’re not exactly doing a passage plan and bringing an extra sun hat these people are paying for their own trafficking. They are desperate and running from a myriad of tragedies in their home countries, they’re not sitting in a marina checking the weather router deciding the best time to be swamped and drowned.
Saying they intentionally put themselves in distress to be rescued is the xenophobic equivalent to saying a well dressed woman walking at night is asking for it. That my friend is fucked up. And they’re not cargo they’re people.
I don’t think you’re a bad person but I recommend having a look at the reasons you feel that these people are undeserving of your humanity.
Also- respect for looking up an old thread since before you were skulking around here to try and discredit what I’m saying. That’s a pro move I think you earned a new badge.
when i was working in the libyan fields ( AHTS) in summer the economic migrants would come out in rafts and stuff to get on to the platforms hoping the supply vessels would rescue them so they knew we ran out of Malta??
Navy would get us to load them onboard, give them blankets then drive around, then when it was dark drive back into Tripoli and unload them, I guess they had never seen Tripoli or Malta so they didnt know…
PS if you cant swim walk south to South Africa
So these people have compelling reasons for doing what they do. How does this impact the relationship between their actions and the intention of the law?
So in this example, the raging sea is the rapist. It should show some respect, exercise restraint, go home and jerk off. I get it.
There, is that better?
I may or may not be a bad person, but that shouldn’t have much to say for my point: These people are undeserving of gaining entry into Europe by abusing regulation intended to keep mariners safe from harm.
You did pique my curiosity, if only for a moment, and reading your post history didn’t take much of my time. I do think your public association with one activist of limited judgement is relevant to understanding your opinions about another one.
Oh, and I don’t think I’ve said anything about my opinions on migration or foreign cultures. Labeling me a xenophobe in an attempt to discredit what I’m saying: Not much of a pro move.
Again one of your dramatic non-arguments. You have a way of twisting the truth or not seeing it. Tunnel vision. They expect that a NGO vessel will show up, if that doesn’t happen they probably will return to shore, providing that there is still fuel left from the little they started out with. Most of them are grownups that have their own responsibility for their life and safety, which they cannot delegate to others, it is their decision.
Twice you mention that, “…we as mariners have the obligation to uphold the preservation of life at sea…”. I agree with that but we as mariners don’t have to support of every person who calls themselves a mariner & every organization that buys a boat to conduct a business. To imply that we should support Sea Watch because they employee mariners is pure bullshit. Should we as mariners support whalers, cocaine smugglers & all military navies of the world too because they employee mariners? I would feel different about it if it was a cargo ship, OSV, tug, fishing trawler or passenger liner that rescued some people from a sinking vessel or floating with a life buoy but Sea Watch’s sole purpose is to illegally traffic refugees from the northern coast of Africa to Europe which is a despicable trade in my opinion. As far as you not trusting fellow mariners that have different views than yours, something tells me you sail on a very small boat or work on a vessel where everyone volunteers to be there.
Very true, it’s their decision to risk their life. And it’s the obligation of contracted governments to abide by regulation 33 of the SOLAS code.
[/quote]They expect that a NGO vessel will show up, if that doesn’t happen they probably will return to shore, providing that there is still fuel left from the little they started out with.
[/quote]
Thats facts. Probably they just try again tomorrow. Nevermind the tbousands and thousands of deaths.
I didn’t imply that that’s a reason to support Sea Watch, why would you support someone just because they are a Mariner? I did say that it’s law to allow them to carry out SAR, which is part of the IMO code. It’s not a perfect system. They don’t want to be there doing this thankless job. But the international community has failed to supply any alternative to protect these people. Why shit on them for doing a job A job the EU has been neglecting?
No one thinks this is a perfect solution but the only alternative right now is to let people die.
SOLAS has nothing to do with people who are drifting around just a short distance from the shore and who are at that moment not in real danger and have the capability to return to safety if they wish so.
They’re complicit in the drownings of hundred or thousands of people each year. Before, EU nations had an unspoken agreement with the human traffickers. The land based traffickers would put desperate refugees on rickety boats to get offshore to be rescued to Europe. Some drowned, some made it & the refugees would take the chance because they knew of others who made it on the same path. Most EU nations didn’t want to participate in the human traffickers business model any longer & quit. The plan of the EU was for refugees to see the probability of drowning being higher & they would stop paying the land based traffickers for short rickety boat rides offshore. But the NGO moved in & continued to assist the human traffickers in their trade. The NGO human traffickers share the same guilt as the land based traffickers in my opinion because they are giving false hope to all desperate refugees while some die in watery graves instead of finding the freedoms they were promised. Sure, if the ferry service to Europe stop for a short while the number of deaths would go up but very quickly the refugees would see no one is getting to Europe on rickety rafts & stop paying the smugglers for rickety boats rides.
You argued they were recklessly putting themselves at risk, I basically say the same but add that they have zero other options.
It of course has nothing to do with the law how you came to be in distress, I don’t think that’s really up for debate.
Look man, I get we aren’t going to see eye to eye. I just can’t understand your cognitive dissonance in the matter at hand. Both sides are being forced to do unsavory things. As I said before no one with Sea Watch enjoys having to do this it is gruesome, thankless, and at times could land you in Italian jail. The EU and especially Italian governments are hindering SAR efforts while only taking superficial efforts to stem the flow of migrants from Libya. But why only shit on the one side of the equation?
For a few years I was very skeptical of the mission of Sea Watch, and like you I thought it didn’t address the root of the problem. But that’s not within the scope of capabilities for a small humanitarian NGO. Additionally the position the Italian government has taken, including arresting multiple vessels and arresting several crew, increasingly hinders their efforts and puts lives at risk. I have many friends that have sailed with Sea Watch and each one has a horror story. It’s far from an organized exchange of passengers, frantic people that cant swim often jump towards the rescuers dozens at a time and drown in the process. Right there in front of you. Capt. Rakete was recently involved in a scene where she and other crew we’re attempting to revive a baby that had drowned. Babies have been born at sea. It’s chaos and not Leisurely bob until help arrives as you state.
I know we’re supposed to shoot the shit and argue here but come on, it’s a fucking disaster down there and they’re only trying to ease the suffering.
But you don’t get that its very possible to reach Europe this way and then you have uncontrolled migration.
Here’s a striking example of what happened in Spain a few years back I’m sure will get you all frothed up. Boat carrying migrants lands on popular tourist beach in Spain
That boat probably came from Algeria or Morocco where only 50 miles or so seperate Europe and Africa. However it’s only 183 miles to Lampedusa and 330 to Sicily.
Letting people die and also having this is not a solution. It’s been going on for a long time and won’t stop without changing peoples fortunes in the places they come from.
I wouldn’t allow you on my boat, your lack of understanding simple concepts makes you dangerous. Japan is gearing up for a big whale hunt this year. You have the right kind of blind emotional dedication and lack of rationality that Greenpeacers admire. I was going to suggest that you join them and go save the whales but I see from your post on another subject that you are already there:
You really can’t make this stuff up. I imagine this is what everyday life on the Bob Barker must be like.
Yes, I get that some of the human traffickers send their clients out of western North Africa & parts of the eastern Mediterranean coast to actually travel the short distance to Europe. That is common knowledge, I never thought or suggested otherwise. What you don’t get or won’t publicly admit is many human traffickers send their clients to sea in vessels that can’t possibly reach their northern destination without the assistance of NGO organizations like Sea Watch to ferry them the rest of the way. You seem to have some sort of arrested development that prevents you from seeing or admitting that Sea Watch is a vital part of the human traffickers business strategy. You seem to think every piece of plywood with a paddle on it sent to sea by the shorebased human traffickers is meant to make it to Europe without rescue.
Twice you have projected the action/emotion of “frothed-up’ed” torward me but that is anything but the case. I really don’t have that much interest about this issue. I have seen (& see) too much suffering around the world with my own eyes to get worked up over other people’s business. I’m just shooting the breeze to help my watch pass by. But now it is getting boring because it is impossible to have a meaningful debate with a person with a mental block who trys to pass emotional feelings off as thought or facts. Good luck to you.
BTW, does anyone know the original names of the Sea Watch 3 before it was the Dignity 1? That '73 built, under 500GT, gulf stacked old supply boat isn’t hard to maneuver unless there’s some wicked current or being handled by an idiot.