I often thought & said the Ocean is soulless. But the 1st reading from last Sunday’s mass at my church was Probverbs 8:22-31. I found it a beautiful piece a poetry & read it a few times during mass & even more afterwards. At first I thought the intended narrator was Jesus but it was hard for me to imagine Jesus playing & lollygagging on the face of the Earth with humans. Then I thought the narrator was supposed to be Solomon but he wasn’t there at the creation of the planet. But if the narrator was King Neptune or the Ocean itself, that would make sense.
Probverbs 8:22-32 from the NAB-RE.
The Lord begot me, the beginning of his works, the forerunner of his deeds of long ago; From of old I was formed, at the first, before the earth. When there were no deeps I was brought forth, when there were no fountains or springs of water; Before the mountains were settled into place, before the hills, I was brought forth; When the earth and the fields were not yet made, nor the first clods of the world. When he established the heavens, there was I, when he marked out the vault over the face of the deep; When he made firm the skies above, when he fixed fast the springs of the deep; When he set for the sea its limit, so that the waters should not transgress his command; When he fixed the foundations of earth, then was I beside him as artisan; I was his delight day by day, playing before him all the while, Playing over the whole of his earth, having my delight with human beings.
I very much like your interpretation, however, semantically, the sea would not seem a viable author as it says in 29 When he gave to the sea his decree [King James Bible] , which definitely sets the putative author of the verses apart from the ocean. On another note, giving voice to a pagean deity does not seem plausible to me.
Microsoft Copilot gives an interpretation that may not be authorative from a theological point of view, but that is interesting, nonetheless:
The fictional speaker in Proverbs 8:22–32 is the personification of Wisdom. In this poetic passage, Wisdom speaks in the first person, describing herself as having been present with God at the very beginning of creation, almost as if she were a divine partner in the creative process. This literary device—portraying an abstract quality as a distinct, speaking character—serves to invite readers to view wisdom as not just a virtue to be admired, but as a dynamic, life-giving presence that underpins the order and beauty of the world.
Over time, different traditions have interpreted this portrayal in various ways. In classical Jewish thought and many Christian interpretations, this personification emphasizes wisdom’s essential role in the universe. Some later Christian writings even connect this figure with Christ—seen as the Logos or the divine Word—although within the context of Proverbs the primary emphasis remains on wisdom as a guiding, almost sacred force. This allegorical narrative challenges us to consider how ancient texts use imaginative language to convey deep, abstract truths about life, knowledge, and the nature of existence.
Considering these layers, the “fictional author” of the verses—the unique, first-person voice—is not meant to recount historical events or divine authorship in a strict sense, but rather to invoke a powerful image of wisdom that inspires thoughtful reflection and righteous living.
8:1-5 are highly suggestive of ‘wisdom’ being the narrator of the ensuing verses.
Whatever interpretation one favours, thanks for pointing out these beautiful verses!
As a ‘bonus track’ I will supply the King James Bible translation:
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
I"ve read this section of the bible, all of Probverbs, at least 4 other times. I was taught & always thought Solomon was describing wisdom in Probverbs as well. But my previous readings were from the KJV and it didn’t flow as well & didn’t mentioned “playing” as the NAB-RE version. It was that word that got me rethinking this ancient poem. It made me imagine a person, Jesus, Solomon or even some dude named Neptune playing with us humans.
About Neptune or the ocean being a deity. I could never believe in a pagan deity. But I’ve murmured to my ships, main engines, my truck, a few old trees & a couple old houses over the years. Although I never considered any of them deities, they felt like they had a soul or personality. I know this line of thinking is the opposite of wisdom but it’s honest. I suspect many a mariner has talked to, tried to sooth or attempted to bargain with the sea over the millenniums.
That is a question that is easily answered, with many different correct responses. To fill idled time for some. Or to fill the gap in our curiosity that science/physics can’t explain. For others it is to lessen the burden & suffering they endure. If they believe a God has relieved some of the weight they carry then by all means let them believe. And considering that a belief in a God is a common trait that members of every civilization has had since humans existed, I think most of us are genetically programed to search out & believe. I don’t know anyone who can do anything meaningless for any amount of time. I think faith in a bigger picture, for better or worse, gives many of us meaning even if we don’t know what it is yet. We keep going knowing in faith one day we will find out.
Maybe - Maybe not. Camus’ would say belief in some god as a source for meaning is a form of philosophic suicide. He would say this is just a way we find comfort and avoid acknowledging the absurdity of the human condition.
Personally I disagree - for me - this is my answer - my form philosophic suicide.
from “The Grand Inquisitor” in “The Brothers Karamazov” - Jesus at the end of his interrogation, this is near perfect IMO
'I was going to end it like this: when the Inquisitor falls silent, he waits for a certain amount of time to hear what his Captive will say in response. He finds His silence difficult to bear. He has seen that the Prisoner has listened to him all this time with quiet emotion, gazing straight into his eyes and evidently not wishing to raise any objection. The old man would like the other to say something to him, even if it is bitter, terrible. But He suddenly draws near to the old man without saying anything and quietly kisses him on his bloodless, ninety-year-old lips.
That is His only response. The old man shudders. Something has stirred at the corners of his mouth; he goes to the door, opens it and says to Him: “Go and do not come back . . . do not come back at all . . . ever . .. ever!” And he releases him into “the town’s dark streets and squares.” The Captive departs.’
And the old man?’ ‘The kiss burns within his heart, but the old man remains with his former idea.’ . . .
Philosophy has been an off and on interest of mine for many years. One of the later ones, Bertrand Russell I particularly enjoyed. His logic and later his book “Why I Am Not a Christian” .
The topic of this subject almost made me ask once again. what the heck is a soul?
In The Brother’s K - your Bertrand Russel type person would be Ivan - the rationalist - the slave to reason. The Grand Inquisitor - is also a slave to reason - asking Jesus to resolve the problem of evil with reason - Which Jesus just answers with a kiss - he does not give the inquisitor some rational explanation - His answer is love - pure, unconditional.
To Dostoevsky - and frankly to me as well - Faith is a verb not a noun. Faith can not exist without doubt and vise versa - doubt is very much part of an active faith -
I have chosen a path - and for me faith and doubt are part of the ongoing to battle to walk that path.
B. Russell thought Buddha and Socrates had more wisdom. That was his opinion. There was someone who said faith requires believing in something you cannot know of so faith itself is a fantasy. I have no problem with people believing any fantasy they wish as long as they do not criticize or judge people who do not believe the same way they do. More wars have been fought and more people killed over religion than any other cause throughout history. So the separation of church and state is very important to the point of being an absolute if one is to have a functioning government for all people.This is a relatively new idea and one many countries have not caught on to yet unfortunately.
