Exxon and Conoco are set up that way. Not sure how they do their bennies, though. Chevron is affiliated with SUP but there are so many guys working there that it is their first maritime gigs, they have no understanding of a union and are easily cowed by the company and senior officers. The officers are all company. I know that SUP puts up a strong and ongoing fight to not only hold the companies accountable to the contracts they agreed to, but to maintain a middle class existence for its members through wages and benefits. And itâs the unions putting up the ongoing battle to keep a US Maritime industry in existence. Donât know of any non-union companies going to DC to support it. But, I donât foresee any union being involved with anything in the GOM, ever.
I believe Crowley moves some oilfield equipment in the Gulf from time to time and those tugs are SIU.
Let me narrow down the obvious intent. The bayou âmafiaâ companies and workers that directly service the oil rigs and drill ships. And the bayou, rig and drill ship guys wouldnât work for lower SIU wages.
*cough* Skippy peanut butter *cough* Never saw it first hand, but you guys brought it up in another thread.
âupdate
And I see now that I got to the end that someone beat me to that one. Anybody that knows how to delete a post and have it actually work on the app, please PM me. 
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;161264]The difference between union and non-union wages is called the union wage premium" Depending who you ask union wages are about 10% above non-union.Union workers are more productive then non-union[/QUOTE]
Who can I ask where union wages are higher than these evil Gulf wages? And really, Union workers are more productive??? Isnât there a huge stereotype about union labor in general?
Yes, there is but that doesnât mean it is true.
Just in case you donât know what âstereotypeâ means:
stereotype
noun
: an often unfair and untrue belief that many people have about all people or things with a particular characteristic
And really, Union workers are more productive???
Depends on what industry and who hires the workers ⌠if you want monkeys and squirrels, shake the trees and give them peanuts.
http://www.qualitydigest.com/feb06/news.shtml
You see, the problem with stereotyping is that it makes things easy for people who canât or wonât think but need to feel good about their own prejudices.
[QUOTE=cajuntugster;161259]Maybe we arenât so much âAgainst itâ here in the GOM, but rather we fail to see any benifits gained from having a union represent us. In a nutshell, any well run company has a certain percentage of itâs budget designated for payroll, benifits, and training. Introducing a union into the mix only adds another âEmployeeâ to the payroll, an employee that is non revenue producing. So the pie now gets cut into smaller slices in order to pay the union their share for doing nothing. As for the union getting us better benifits, training, vacation, etc. OK, Iâll grant you they may be able to do that. However, those increased perks will come at the price of a decreased rate of pay. Again no matter how many slices you cut the pie into, it is still only a certain size.[/QUOTE]
This is most likely not true. In economics there is "economic rent" ( not to be confused with a rental payment). Companies that are can make profits above and beyond what would occur in perfect competition are said to be able to âextract rentsâ. How these so-called rents get disturbed between capital and labor is determined by how much political power each has. Right now capital is strong and labor is weak.
Hey on the topic of the peanut butter, I just want to clarify this for those of you who donât get it.
Maybe it happened, but thatâs not how it normally works.
More likely scenario is: oh shit, no skippy peanut butter! Bullshit we will not sail! Then well fine, If you sail without it there will be a grievance that jeaux will have to sort out with the union. In this case the brothers affected would probably get a few bucks ($20, 50?) for their trouble, unless the Union itself says itâs bullshit and not worth their time and aggravation. (Likely)
Usually issues like that can be sorted out in-house anyways; rigs wonât go without their supplies over peanut butter or laundry detergent. Management does not like grievances and will deal with things whenever possible. Difference is things a lone mariner may not speak up about on his own often will with support of the Union.
Same goes if I have a fuckup deckhand; I can call the shop steward with whom I sailed previously and ask him to kick said deckhand in the ass, since he isnât listening to us and itâs way easier to fire someone when the shop steward wonât stick up for them.
The best mariners should get promoted, the troublemakers and screw-ups should get fired, and beefs should be handled with minimum drama. All these things get accomplished at unionized companies.
Itâs true that firing people is a bit of a hassle but itâs not hard. You have to go through the process.
Just need to have the paperwork in order. Usually the offense is failure to follow instructions. I keep the old DFC (discharge for cause) letters on my computer, just change the names and dates and tinker with the details. Iâve never gotten any significant push-back from the union. They donât want screw-ups either.
[QUOTE=jbtam99;161289]cough Skippy peanut butter cough Never saw it first hand, but you guys brought it up in another thread.
âupdate
And I see now that I got to the end that someone beat me to that one. Anybody that knows how to delete a post and have it actually work on the app, please PM me. :/[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the Skippy Peanut Butter.
In theSIU Standard Freightship Agreement section four prohibits work stoppages, strikes.
Section six - The authority of the master and obedience of the crew - nothing in the contract is intended or shall be construed to limit in any way the authority of the master or other officer or lessen the obedience of any member of the crew to any lawful order.
The Skippy incident supposedly took place on a SUP ship but their contract has similar provisions. The contract provides a process for beefs. If the crew refused to work the ship it would be grounds for termination. Neither the company or the union wants drama.
I canât say for a fact it never happened but it sounds like BS.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;161338]Yeah, the Skippy Peanut Butter.
In theSIU Standard Freightship Agreement section four prohibits work stoppages, strikes.
Section six - The authority of the master and obedience of the crew - nothing in the contract is intended or shall be construed to limit in any way the authority of the master or other officer or lessen the obedience of any member of the crew to any lawful order.
The Skippy incident supposedly took place on a SUP ship but their contract has similar provisions. The contract provides a process for beefs. If the crew refused to work the ship it would be grounds for termination. Neither the company or the union wants drama.
I canât say for a fact it never happened but it sounds like BS.[/QUOTE]
I would suspect that if it ever did happen then it was decades ago. No maritime union is anywhere near powerful enough these days that they would prevent a ship sailing, especially over something like the wrong brand of peanut butter. This story smacks of urban legend, and therefore this story should not be trotted out anytime an argument is made against unions.
What sort of beef could be used to delay a vessels departure? What beefs do OSV Mariners currently have that they canât solve by speaking with shoreside management that only a union could?
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161342]What sort of beef could be used to delay a vessels departure? What beefs do OSV Mariners currently have that they canât solve by speaking with shoreside management that only a union could?[/QUOTE]
No beef of any sort can delay a vessel.
On a large ship on a long voyage with 20+ crew various complaints arise. They can be taken to the shipâs chairman, usually the bosân. With an experienced bosân 95% of complaints end there. If not he goes to the captain.Iâve always been able to resolve everything. However if the crew member is not satisfied he can go to the union rep. The union rep first goes to the captain, if the rep is not satisfied he then goes to the company. I"ver never had a complaint go that far.
Itâs a route for the unlicensed without going through the department heads, The chairman is similar to the Chief of the Boat in the Navy/.
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161342]What sort of beef could be used to delay a vessels departure? What beefs do OSV Mariners currently have that they canât solve by speaking with shoreside management that only a union could?[/QUOTE]It is obvious that you will never get it but here goes any howâŚIn AMO and SIU there are clauses in the contract that do NOT allow for work stoppages or strike. Most likely other marinerâs unions have the same.Are you really that out of touch to think that marinerâs can talk to shoreside management about beefs? Most people wouldnât talk to shoreside management out because of real or imagined repercussions. The consequence of talking to the office might be loss of job, pissing off the captain. not getting a promotion or just getting a bad rep in the office. You will probably claim that your HR department says they have an open line of communication with the mariners but that is crap. If you really believe that, either you or your HR department needs to pee in the cup.
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161342]What sort of beef could be used to delay a vessels departure? What beefs do OSV Mariners currently have that they canât solve by speaking with shoreside management that only a union could?[/QUOTE]
Iâm not sure, but I will say this. I bring my own steaks on the boat. Canataâs is the only one with good beef, CAB, but we donât order from them. I just go ahead and bring my own USDA PRIME steaks on board. I figure you, Joe Boss, pay me $800 a day so I could spend 20% of one days pay and bring what makes me happy. I never run out of fruit, candy, mixed nuts, beef jerky or other things I consider a luxury. The other folks havenât figured it out yet and bitch when we run out of OREOâs. They just canât grasp the concept of looking out for themselves.
Hell, I bring my own stuff to make special dishes for the crew. Stuff like Chipotle in adobe sauce, green chiles, etc⌠When you live on a boat 1/2 your life or 3/4 of it you have to make things happen instead of waiting on someone else to provide for you. Thatâs what I hate about so many union minded folks. They think someone should give them crap. Just get off your ass and do it yourself and be happy.
[QUOTE=AB Murph;161349]
They think someone should give them crap. Just get off your ass and do it yourself and be happy.[/QUOTE]
Crap that was agreed upon.
When people agree to do something they each just fucking do it and not make excuses?
In the case of the GoM mariner , union wages are not higher. Iâve been on both sides of the union fence and my practical experience says non-union employees are generally far more productive than their Union counterparts.
Are you really that out of touch to think that marinerâs can talk to shoreside management about beefs? Most people wouldnât talk to shoreside management out because of real or imagined repercussions. The consequence of talking to the office might be loss of job, pissing off the captain. not getting a promotion or just getting a bad rep in the office. You will probably claim that your HR department says they have an open line of communication with the mariners but that is crap
I think you are the one that is out of touch, ie : stereotyping the non union ⌠Joe Boss. Iâve seen many complaints from various levels get sorted out by the Capt. Iâve also seen the Capt ignore said complaints and they then got sorted out by management. Donât recall anyone being overlooked for promotion or fired. I think life has changed dramatically for the GoM mariner in the past 10yrs.
I have yet to see any compelling evidence that I would want to add a middle man, that i would then have to pay ,into the mix between me and Joe Boss ?
Oops⌠The first paragraph was excerpted from RESPECTMYAUTHORITYâŚ
[QUOTE=St@nley68;161400]In the case of the GoM mariner , union wages are not higher. Iâve been on both sides of the union fence and my practical experience says non-union employees are generally far more productive than their Union counterparts.[/QUOTE]
If I were to assert that a union electrician making more then a non-union dishwasher proves that union workers earn higher wages youâd see the error immediately.
Unless you compare non-union GOM O&G sector to union GOM O&G sector you are making an apples to oranges comparison. That canât be done however because the entire sector is non-union.
GOM wages were driven up because the O&G sector there was highly profitable and rapidly expanding. In order to crew up high day-rate boats it was necessary to hike wages high enough to attract credentialed mariners from other sectors. In the O&G sector each additional mariner adds to the bottom line.
Other maritime sectors by contrast are mature, stable or in some cases shrinking. In that case mariners, union and non union alike will not be able to negotiate higher wages.