The smaller vessels here in NY pay absolute crap. I don’t know how many of them can make a living.
The most I have ever seen is $30 a hour at NYC Ferry. There are some dinner boats paying cash or $50 an hour but you only work 3-4 hours a night.
Most guys I know hustle between 2-3 different boats to make ends meet.
All the time, according to the old timers bittching about the renewal process. “Why do i have to take fire fighting again, ive fought more fire than they can teach in a month” they say.
Thats the thing about being on call, federal law required that you be paid for it regardless if you get called or not. So a dayrate of $600/ day is really $25 an hour, which puts us on par with a lot of low skill labor and retail folks.
Curious, how many years sailing did it take for you to become so miserable that you bitch about a company paying its employees to much money? Trying to gtfo of the industry before I get there.
This is a good way to think about it. Because being on call 24/7 the company is getting access to my skilled labor. Other industries when you’re off the clock they don’t get that access because your at home or maybe at a different job. Just like many doctors that get paid for being on call.
That’s another reason I prefer working for companies that have an hourly OT rate for all rates. Even if they have a stipend like the for the top four some companies, I like the companies that provide an additional OT rate for them as well. So at least everyone can put it in when you have to work out of normal business hours.
About 15 years, but, I don’t really consider myself miserable. I actually really enjoy this career and love what I do. I just worry sometimes about the amount of money some of us want for what we actually do. This can be a very unstable career at times and no matter what part of the industry you are in, the price of oil has an effect all the way across the board, whether it be tugs, OSV’s, passenger etc etc.
I just think that saying 565 for a 3M(which is an entry level management position) is too low, is a little bit strange. 3M are a dime a dozen, 500+ a year graduate and come to the market. Don’t take it so personal. I went from OS to Master and was once in the shoes of a 3M as well.
This is all my opinion, don’t get so offended by it. I respect your opinion and how you feel about it as it is your right to feel the way you do.
I base my opinion off what I’ve seen over the last 15 years which is not very long compared to some of the others on this forum.
Contrary to your feeling, I in fact do hope that one day we work together because though you feel I am miserable, I in fact love training and helping out newer guys with whatever knowledge has been passed along to me. But really all things considered, who am I? Really no one. Just like most of us lol.
I’m not offended by it I just do not see the logic in it. More money for 3M’s means more money for everyone above them (meaning you) and more incentive for companies to compete for mariners they are already having trouble finding.
If 3M’s are a dime a dozen why are there 3M jobs on both MMP and AMO boards? That was never the case before. I’ve been happily employed by the same company for 2 years now and I’m still getting calls from Transocean and Hornbeck when I haven’t filled out an application for them in at least 4 years.
As previously said, a rising tide lifts all boats.
Probably because the new expected going rate for a fresh of the titty 3M is 700 a day.
As it should be. -“Fresh off the titty” sailing 3/M ex military with kids and a mortgage.
A company with a some 160’-ish boats doing seafloor survey work (I believe in both the oil and wind industries, but I’m not sure) offered me a mate position recently at $400/day and a minimum 30/30 schedule (but said they prefer longer hitches).
It was all I could do not to laugh them off of the phone.
The simple way i look at things:
Away from home=more money. Close to home=less money.
Smaller vessels=less money. Larger vessels=more money.
More and/or specialized certs=more money.
If you are working in a capacity lower than your skills/certs or on a vessel smaller than the capacity of your ticket…thats your deal.
Its nobody’s problem but mine that i am a sole provider for a family of 4 residing in an expensive state. I’m at the point, you wanna make more work more. In most cases we aren’t victims we are volunteers.
Lastly, if a rating be it an AB or QMED can be pulling in almost 90k doing even time these days, shouldnt a license be getting substantially more? Thats what im seeing. Ratings are in more demand and they’ve had the biggest pay bumps. Officers not so much.
Well said.
Also, going back to what was stated earlier about “how many fires do you actually put out?”, I’d like to highlight that that’s somewhat of a red herring more or less and here’s why. You might not be putting fires out everyday; thankfully that’s true. You’re living for months on end with an elevated attention to detail and adhering to strict cultures of procedural compliance in order to NOT have that fire break out. That’s already fatigue—inducing.
Additionally, on a weekly basis you’re training, suiting up, and going on air as if it’s the real deal (at least I do at my place of employment). I am also expected to retain and be able to use the firefighting knowledge I have gained from those BST+ADVFF courses that I have to once again fly away from home for and stay in hotels. And, at the end of the day, that fire might very well break out. Stand and deliver at that point. Those classes aren’t just an”pay the money get the thing and forget” affair.
The above is not true for someone at Bucce’s or Stuckey’s or whatever place they might be working at. Dial up the local FD. Go home and have a beer. Get medical attention. I’ve seen a number of severe medical issues on ships, including ones needing immediate medical attention, but were denied access to medical facilities ashore due to the country’s COVId protocols. $700/day? That should not be considered too much.
Ah the good old days. Don’t know if they will ever come back though. OIM was not that much more than Maintenance Supervisor aka Chief engineer if you were responsible for drill floor and power plant. At one time some OIM’s got a ridiculous signing bonus but that ended before I retired. 300K plus per diem and serviced housing was nice while in the shipyards. You could easily bank over 50% of your income. We had to know that was not sustainable and the wise banked their money. That’s the thing about any maritime job involving the oil business. It is feast or famine. Friends of mine that stuck it out with MEBA ended up retiring more financially secure than most who chased the high dollar in the oil business. It’s all about financial discipline.
Many of the AEs I worked with are now working with power companies making over 120,000/yr with good benefits, pension, 401k etc and go home at night. Good for them. Being home cuts down on expenses, like divorce. 
Labor must be short in VA since I have since OS jobs down there going for $200+ per day even time. McCallister just advertised an OS deckhand role in Norfolk for $225/day working 14/14. That’s a big leap for that area.
Norfolk pay is not good at all , heard mates at Moran online making 470. The mom and pop company’s around their pay more. When I started in Norfolk I got 125 for os
My opinion is about like Jodys, the cycle will come back around again. Alot of people on this forum in general are pompous arrogant fucks who are so far out of touch with reality its not funny sometimes. Fair wage growth, decent benefits, reasonable job security, every industry you look at right now is short for qualified people, especially the ones beneath most of you here. Had it out with a tug captain tonight, he thinks because this company is desperately short people we can stick it right in for the upcoming raises, be alot of crying and repo-ed pickups the minute it gets slow, what did we accomplish ??? The day these big ship companys can run those wheelhouses remotely with a limited engine room on certain ships, might not be the whole industry but its coming, couple strokes of the pen. Look on land at where alot of these middle class jobs are headed, construction, mining, logging, service industry’s, bigger and better equipment, replace 2 or 3 people with 1. Its coming out here slowly, we arent that special.
Idk what company you work for, and if they’re better than most then great, but every company I’ve worked for wouldn’t hesitate to “stick it right in” given any chance they get. Cuts on the food budget, pay for wifi, reflag vessels to save money, anything and everything.
That’s a personal problem. If people don’t know how to manage the money they make that’s not my or your problem. Is it sad? Sure. But totally avoidable and shouldn’t be a factor in whether or not we make money. What did we accomplish? More money. Whether it’s short term or long term. If the baseline pay is higher then when things slow down and pick back up again you can negotiate for more money.
They may graduate with the licenses, but how many actually sail on them? I know in my class at TMA (‘99) only seven of us (deckside) initially sailed (and three of them went straight to apprentice pilot spots on the Mississippi and Chesapeake). All the rest chose to be home every night and went shoreside with their licenses. On the engine room side, 50% went shoreside (roughly).
It’s been a little over a decade since I graduated TMA. Most everyone in my class sailed for at least a year or two initially. Starting pay for 3rd Mates was around $500/day deep sea and $650/day Oil Field.
Seems like at the 5 year mark the shoreside transition happened for a lot, and a few more at the 10 year mark.
Of both deck and engine in my grad class the paths have gone:
*35% sailing commercially-non pilots (13/37)
*31% of deck side became pilots (9/29 deck grads)
*41% have gone shoreside (15/37)
Further breakdown:
*17% that I know of deck grads have Master Unlimited (5/29)
*13% engineers have unlimited Chief (1/8)
*46% sailing are in the oil field (6/13)
*38% sailing on tugs of some sort (5/13)
*15% sailing are deep sea (2/13)
*5% of total class has sailed as Master or Chief, that I know of (2/37)
Those are interesting statistics man. How were you able to ascertain all of that?
It’s in keeping with what I would have thought, with the exception of the number of people that became pilots; I would have thought that number to be fewer.m, but that’s awesome.
It’s a small group of people, it’s easy enough to keep up with them.