Commentary from a practising Chief Engineer.
As it turns out and should you do some research, this āself proclaimedā Chief Engineer has been posting engineering commentary on YouTube for quite some time now. It is an excellent video.
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@Ausmariner posted this on the other thread. I watched the video and thought it was very good. Ausmariner agreed it deserved itās own thread.
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As always a fascinating watch by Chief Makoi.
Only thing I could fault was that if the rudder was under control doing 8 kts it should have had a turning effect.
I obviously donāt know local conditions and the effect the ebb tide out of the adjacent river had on the ship. If it was only 0.2kt I donāt think it was much.
Otherwise a really informative video by a current Chief Engineer who also has a great gift for explaining things.
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I wasnāt specifically talking about this video.
I didnāt even see this video.
I was just talking in general terms.
Lots of āexpertsā pop up everywhere whenever there is a big accident.
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Good day
Love chief MAKOi video clips. I am a subscriber to His channel. He is not only practising but teaching as well and He indeed may be referred to as an EXPERT. Have no doubts abt it.
Excellent presentations about engineering , ships machinery ,E/R however his statements regarding ship handling piloting -wise i woud view with caution.
Have You noticed anything wrong in the video??
I have. Not a big deal butā¦
QUOTE:
11:16
rudder makes the ship turn by deflecting
11:20
the water stream generated by the
11:23
propeller the force of that deflection
11:26
creates a turning moment or torque
11:29
around the shipās center of gravity so
11:32
that in combination with inertia causes
11:35
the ship to begin turning in the
11:38
direction determined by the rudder
11:40
position the fact that they werenāt ab
END QUOTE.
Do You agree with " CENTER OF GRAVITY" as I would opt for " pivot point" during movement ahead, unless vessel is stopped copletely.
Another issue : I have made a screen shot of the ship with all lights on before black out event and same when power was restored for the first time.
The composition of visible lights is identical . From Solas emcy gen does not supply deck lights and frwd maneuvering light The yellow glow on the fwd breakwater does not come from fwd nav. light as itās arcs of visibility both horizontal and vertical are strictly regulated in āCOLREGSā , then the glow must come from fwd light that provides illumination for working crew.
Cheers
Iāve about given up on this but to get a whole engine room (AND DECK) crew, many or most of whom canāt swim to forego their futures, risk prison, risk a loss of ship,
and all else to ram the bridge with dubious anticipation of success ā¦ naw,
I see most conspiracy theories of the last 3 years coming true but for the effort way better ātargetsā were available ā¦ it was a accident.
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No I donāt, but heās an engineer and can be forgiven on that one.
A ship never (unless by coincidence) turns at its Center of Gravity. It will always, by definition, be at the Pivot Point. Where that Pivot Point is depends on many factors (speed and trim mostly).
Regardless, itās not super relevant or causal to this event.
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Hello Spowiednick, all
I watched the video and I too think there is a fair bit of incorrect speculation. And yes, other than the not so correct rudder explanation, several engine room thoughts are not quite correct. For example, the black smoke is attributed to the boiler. The oil fired section on these Boilers on these are tiny and just for providing some heat to the accommodation, hot water heater, etc. At sea, heat is extracted from the main engine exhaust gas for the additional load of fuel heating, etc with an economizer. The largest funnel (about 1-1.5 meters in diameter) in the stack is for the main engine and looks to me the smoke was emanating from this. The smallest exhaust uptake will be the boiler - maybe 300 mm dia. Also the speed at collision was mentioned as 1.5-2 kts - no much chance vessel slowed from about 7 kts in that short time without the main engine. Other minor stuff, I think the Emergency generator started (evidenced by the nav lights) within the IMO (Solas) 45 secs and I think continued to operate until the collision. Under normal circumstances of maneuvering with the ER on standby, crew would not risk and try to take the load from from the emergency to the main and go out to the EDG room to stop the diesel engine which is a manual operation.
Thanks.
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I believe what was said on the video is that the black smoke was likely not from the boiler.
Chief Makio also speculates that the black smoke was probably not from the main engine because the engine crew likely did not have enough time for the tasks required to restart.
we can presume that it came from the big generators Iām ruling out the auxiliary boiler automatically firing in this case because it takes about a minute of pre purging before it could fire presumably
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Apologies ā¦ I must have misheard. But, considering at the blackout all non essential loads (reefer loads) are dropped, the load on the generator will be minimal - no more than 1500kw or so and also this load is kind of gradual loading as all the essential pumps operating at the blackout will come on sequentially starting with the main lube pumps at probably 1 second. Not likely. The main engine is an electronic engine and really nothing more than the lube pump is required to start the main engine (all others can be bypassed). All other essential pumps for the main engine such as jacket water, etc will come on within 3 seconds or so. So it is possible to start the ME in a normal mode without resorting to any by-pass or override.
Sorry again for the oversight. Thanks.
Can this really be true? The application guide for this type of engine shows a FO Supply Pump, FO Circulating Pump and a hydraulic control oil pump(s) which all seem vital to getting a successful start. Without fuel or ability to hydraulically actuate injection booster pumps, injectors and exhaust valves this doesnāt seem possible.
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I do not recall asking You but anyaway thx for Your opinion and be so kind and let me decide what is relewant or not when I am the author of the question.
And if You and some other members of this quackademia arÄ offended by my presence HerÄ and the way of my reasoning and asking questions then pls feel free to do what is required by the RULES of this forum and spare me Your pontificating sermons of what is proper and / or relevant . The open hostility of some participants here nay really be suffocating.
Thx for Your input. I do not apply scrutiny to E/R ops as it is not my turf and there arÄ enough experts here who can do it . I am only interested in nautical aspects and that is all. Cheers.
Hi KP
Correct. You need all the above pumps to ensure fuel, exh valve actuators, etc are fully functional. But these are much smaller pumps and and most likely will not be on the sequential start program that is designed to load the generators systematically such that we have no speed/frequency drop on the board. The above mentioned pumps either come on as soon as power is on or the engineers started them as soon as the generator was on the board.
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Chief_Makoi_Transcript.pdf (79.1 KB)
Very long so I posted it on a new thread.
I didnāt mean that your question was irrelevant - I meant that the location of the pivot point is entirely immaterial/irrelevant to the incident. The Chiefās (understandable) lack of āproperā terminology for what is very much a deck department concept doesnāt invalidate the rest of his analysis. A lot of deck officers donāt even understand the nuances of the pivot point.
BTW, @Ausmariner and I are in the same professionā¦
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Accept my appologies for my outburst. You arÄ right. Have wonderful rest of Your day or night
With regards to the black smoke, from the transcript:
I thought they were trying to do crash astern maneuvers, and the black smoke was the result of a poor fuel-to-air ratio because they canceled the load limits of the main engine, you know, to quickly increase the speed. However, it was only 13 seconds after the lights went on. I doubt they managed to restart the main engine that fast. There are a lot of things to reset before the main engine can be ready for operation. Well, itās not impossible, but I seriously doubt they were able to. Itās more likely that the black smoke was coming from the big generators.
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Some deck lights are typically also emergency lights analysing the EGen coming on/off based on deck lights would be an imperfect method.
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