Does anyone on here know if there are any regulations against the locking of the emergency generator room besides it being a terrible idea? Trying to get some ammo to go against some stupidity on-board.
No reg that I know of.
Buy a box of small, cheap brass padlocks all keyed alike, they are about five bucks apiece, it’s a consumable item. Lock all the doors that need to be locked with locks which use the same key and have everyone carry the key on their keychain. In an emergency someone nearby will likey have a key. If not use the bos’n master key ( bolt cutters). Those small cheap locks cut easy.
When enough locks have frozen, busted or gotten lost throw the entire lot out and replace with new and issue everyone the new keys.
Sounds like a old fashioned D*#k measuring contest to me. Sorry to hear someone is even questioning this bud. I wish C. Captain was back. I’d love to hear his opinion on it.
46 CFR Part 111 - ELECTRIC SYSTEMS
§ 111.01-7 Accessibility and spacing.
(a) The design and arrangement of electric apparatus must afford accessibility to each part as needed to facilitate proper inspection, adjustment, maintenance, or replacement.
This only applies to vessels subject to sub chapters: D, H, I, I-A, K, L, O, Q, R, T, U & W.
When I lived in the country we kept the doors to the house unlocked and the keys to the car in the ignition. When I moved to the city I changed my behavior.
When I started sailing C/M I had to carry keys to have access to spaces locked up. In port, the ship’s security plan requires more spaces to be locked then previous. The crew had to start carrying keys, just like I had to.
If you just lock the door to the EGR and no other changes, yes that might be a problem. Once the crew gets into the habit of carrying their keys it’s not an issue. Also there often is a set of keys on the bridge and one set in the ECR but you don’t have to leave your keys behind very many times to learn to carry them. I keep mine on a lanyard so I never leave them behind.
Those small locks snip right off with the bold cutters either way.
On many newer ships/boats all the ESDs that used to be out on open deck for easy access is now inside the ISPS “barrier”, or in a compartment accessible from deck, but locked with a padlock to deny Pirates access.
The fact that the risk of fire is far greater than being boarded by Pirates that actually know how to stop the engine(s) by operating the Fuel shut off valves are ignored by the ISPS Inspector.
I asked one of them if he thought that any Pirate with enough knowledge to use them would also be able to find something around the decks to knock open a simple pad lock. Answer; “Well it is the rules”.
I have also found emergency escape hatches “secured” in such a way that it took both hands and several attempts to open them from the inside. One time an Engineer had to get a monkey wrench before he could demonstrate how to get out in an emergency.
Sometime I get the impression that one set of rules may kill others, not to mention people.
Common sense is not all that common, it appears.
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[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;186892]When I lived in the country we kept the doors to the house unlocked and the keys to the car in the ignition.[/QUOTE]
I grew up in the sticks too, but everyone locked their cars in the summer else your neighbors would fill it with squash. Bad neighborhood I guess
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[QUOTE=ombugge;186893]On many newer ships/boats all the ESDs that used to be out on open deck for easy access is now inside the ISPS “barrier”, or in a compartment accessible from deck, but locked with a padlock to deny Pirates access.
The fact that the risk of fire is far greater than being boarded by Pirates that actually know how to stop the engine(s) by operating the Fuel shut off valves are ignored by the ISPS Inspector.
I asked one of them if he thought that any Pirate with enough knowledge to use them would also be able to find something around the decks to knock open a simple pad lock. Answer; “Well it is the rules”.
I have also found emergency escape hatches “secured” in such a way that it took both hands and several attempts to open them from the inside. One time an Engineer had to get a monkey wrench before he could demonstrate how to get out in an emergency.
Sometime I get the impression that one set of rules may kill others, not to mention people.
Common sense is not all that common, it appears.[/QUOTE]
Using the phrase “deny Pirates access” demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic principles of ship security. The trick is not just to find a tool on deck to break a small padlock, it’s trying to find that tool while 4 armed ex-Navy Seals are trying to kill you. The padlock just makes things a little more difficult.
Changing security policy on ship is difficult, for one it’s a new routine for the crew and for another any changes to the ship security plan have to be approved by the C.G.
You didn’t mention what kind of vessel. The last place I worked was a ferry, with the edg on the main deck next to where the cars parked. Leaving it unlocked was NOT a good idea. We did have an emergency key box next to the door. The old fashioned break the glass to grab the key box, just higher than eye level. Simple, but kept the drunks from getting in where they didn’t need to be. All locks were keyed the same, and every employee had a key too.
In port, we kept our E-gen room as well as other storage areas locked so people couldn’t go snooping around and maybe screw up something.
gulf of mexico, chances of a pirate are pretty friggen slim.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;186897]Using the phrase “deny Pirates access” demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic principles of ship security. The trick is not just to find a tool on deck to break a small padlock, it’s trying to find that tool while 4 armed ex-Navy Seals are trying to kill you. The padlock just makes things a little more difficult.
Changing security policy on ship is difficult, for one it’s a new routine for the crew and for another any changes to the ship security plan have to be approved by the C.G.[/QUOTE]
Maybe news to you, but not ALL ships carry “4 armed ex-Navy Seals” at all times.
ALL ships has to comply with the ISPS rules however, no matter where ever they are in the world.
(Don’t know about the GoM though??)
Yes it is difficult to change the security plan once it is approved, no matter how silly some of the recommendations by the Security Consultants may be.
By the way, USCG only approve Security Plans for US flag ships I believe?? (Or have they decided to pock their noses into the jurisdiction of other Flag States as well?)
[QUOTE=ombugge;186893]On many newer ships/boats all the ESDs that used to be out on open deck for easy access is now inside the ISPS “barrier”, or in a compartment accessible from deck, but locked with a padlock to deny Pirates access.
The fact that the risk of fire is far greater than being boarded by Pirates that actually know how to stop the engine(s) by operating the Fuel shut off valves are ignored by the ISPS Inspector.
I asked one of them if he thought that any Pirate with enough knowledge to use them would also be able to find something around the decks to knock open a simple pad lock. Answer; “Well it is the rules”.
I have also found emergency escape hatches “secured” in such a way that it took both hands and several attempts to open them from the inside. One time an Engineer had to get a monkey wrench before he could demonstrate how to get out in an emergency.
Sometime I get the impression that one set of rules may kill others, not to mention people.
Common sense is not all that common, it appears.[/QUOTE]
Wait, wait, wait. . . locking the emergency escape hatch? Admittedly, I have been away from Statutory work for some time. . . and to think how pissed off I used to get seeing the trunks used for storage. . . .
[QUOTE=cmakin;186908]Wait, wait, wait. . . locking the emergency escape hatch? Admittedly, I have been away from Statutory work for some time. . . and to think how pissed off I used to get seeing the trunks used for storage. . . .[/QUOTE]
I’m afraid you would be even more shocked if you could see the many “innovative” methods used to ensure that emergency escape hatches and doors cannot be opened from the outside. (I may have some pictures. Reverting if found)
I found some pictures from a relatively new AHTS.
This is the method recommended by a Security Consultant and approved by Class:
The round lid fits over the handle on top of the hatch and a pad lock stops anybody from opening the hatch from outside.
It can still be opened from inside, turning this wheel:
Since the crew didn’t believe this to be sufficient security, they had installed a rope.
To be tied with a slip knot at a low rung on the ladder when in Pirate infested waters.
While we are at it, here is the scrambling net at Rescue Zones on the same vessel:
The net didn’t even reach water when deployed and the “weight” at the bottom of the net was made from wood:
You guess is as good as mine as to how many inspectors had ticked the box where it says; Scrambling nets? YES / NO
Obviously none had check the functionality of the nets.
So you don’t say why he is locking it. Is he trying to keep crew members from hiding out in there and sleeping or playing on their phones?
[QUOTE=ombugge;186913]I found some pictures from a relatively new AHTS.
This is the method recommended by a Security Consultant and approved by Class:
The round lid fits over the handle on top of the hatch and a pad lock stops anybody from opening the hatch from outside.
It can still be opened from inside, turning this wheel:
You guess is as good as mine as to how many inspectors had ticked the box where it says; Scrambling nets? YES / NO
Obviously none had check the functionality of the nets.[/QUOTE]
I would think that the inside wheel with NO appliance on the top of the hatch would be the trick. . . and then mandate it. . . sad. . . and thanks.
Isn’t there now requirements to be able to lock the caps on the sounding pipes for fresh water tanks. For the obvious reason to prevent Somalis or the mujaheddin sneaking on board and dropping some holy allah blessed polonium-210 down into your tanks.
I’ll bet pirates carry bolt cutters.
[QUOTE=catherder;186960]I’ll bet pirates carry bolt cutters.[/QUOTE]
Yes Ma’am.
Torches too along with automatic weapons to shoot the glass out. LOL!!!
Stupid rules are in place for pirates.
To me an armory should be in place in the Masters quarters that is locked also (An actual armory vault.) If attacked then crew should be able to access them to defend themselves. I know all these European country are against guns but damn man. I can only think of one time a REALLY STUPID pirate attack a armed shipped they knew was armed. It didn’t turn out to well for them and hasn’t happened since as far as I know.
Any crew sailing in a pirate area would have to take training on weapons to use weapons. If you don’t want to because you think it is bad or against some belief you have then find another job.
[QUOTE=AB Murph;186965]Yes Ma’am.
Torches too along with automatic weapons to shoot the glass out. LOL!!!
Stupid rules are in place for pirates.
To me an armory should be in place in the Masters quarters that is locked also (An actual armory vault.) If attacked then crew should be able to access them to defend themselves. I know all these European country are against guns but damn man. I can only think of one time a REALLY STUPID pirate attack a armed shipped they knew was armed. It didn’t turn out to well for them and hasn’t happened since as far as I know.
Any crew sailing in a pirate area would have to take training on weapons to use weapons. If you don’t want to because you think it is bad or against some belief you have then find another job.[/QUOTE]
Oh the horror! It could cause an international “incident”.