Locking the CO2 room

Has anyone on here ever worked on a vessel where the CO2 room was kept locked, and required a key to gain access in order to release CO2?

That’s a really bad idea.

I also like to live dangerously.

That is one of the dumbest things I have heard recently. What reason has been given to attempt to justify such a dangerous practice?

[QUOTE=frogstomp81;164420]Has anyone on here ever worked on a vessel where the CO2 room was kept locked, and required a key to gain access in order to release CO2?[/QUOTE]
The PULL stations are outside the CO2 room but I like to have ready access all means of release, including inside the bottle room.
I’ve never seen one locked but have had problems with the crew wanting to use the CO2 room for a storage locker.

[QUOTE=frogstomp81;164420]Has anyone on here ever worked on a vessel where the CO2 room was kept locked, and required a key to gain access in order to release CO2?[/QUOTE]

It may be a “restricted space” in the ship’s security plan. In that case it may have to be kept locked at certain times, for example in port.

One issue is some unauthorized person discharging CO2 into a space where someone is working, engine room or cargo holds.

It doesn’t have to be as bad as it sounds. For less then five bucks each you can buy a couple dozen small brass padlocks all keyed alike. Crew will need to access to locked spaces for routine work so most crew members should have the key for the CO2 space (and the other locked spaces). For sure the people authorized to discharge the CO2 will have the key.

The fall back is the bosun locker is nearby, those cheap brass locks are easy to cut.

Never. Why you ask?

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;164428]It may be a “restricted space” in the ship’s security plan. In that case it may have to be kept locked at certain times, for example in port.

One issue is some unauthorized person discharging CO2 into a space where someone is working, engine room or cargo holds.

It doesn’t have to be as bad as it sounds. For less then five bucks each you can buy a couple dozen small brass padlocks all keyed alike. Crew will need to access to locked spaces for routine work so most crew members should have the key for the CO2 space (and the other locked spaces). For sure the people authorized to discharge the CO2 will have the key.

The fall back is the bosun locker is nearby, those cheap brass locks are easy to cut.[/QUOTE]
I had forgotten we locked most all compartments while in Haiti, Barranquilla Colombia and West African ports. Even long before the security plans were the norm.

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;164428]It may be a “restricted space” in the ship’s security plan. In that case it may have to be kept locked at certain times, for example in port.

One issue is some unauthorized person discharging CO2 into a space where someone is working, engine room or cargo holds.

It doesn’t have to be as bad as it sounds. For less then five bucks each you can buy a couple dozen small brass padlocks all keyed alike. Crew will need to access to locked spaces for routine work so most crew members should have the key for the CO2 space (and the other locked spaces). For sure the people authorized to discharge the CO2 will have the key.

The fall back is the bosun locker is nearby, those cheap brass locks are easy to cut.[/QUOTE]

I would have to say that if the CO2 room has to be locked for the reasons you list there must be a key box outside the door similar to what one would expect to find outside damage control lockers.

One of the dog and pony shows held after one of our the Fire& Boat drills was done in the CO2 room where everyone was shown how to use the system. Different scenarios were discussed and walked through. Who is to say what may happen in an emergency and who may be called to do things.

'[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;164432]I would have to say that if the CO2 room has to be locked for the reasons you list there must be a key box outside the door similar to what one would expect to find outside damage control lockers.

One of the dog and pony shows held after one of our the Fire& Boat drills was done in the CO2 room where everyone was shown how to use the system. Different scenarios were discussed and walked through. Who is to say what may happen in an emergency and who may be called to do things.[/QUOTE]

Good point about the need for access.

It’s a balance of two risks. The unauthorized discharge vs difficulty in an actual emergency.

The all keyed alike padlocks work good because almost everone on the crew will have a key. All the senior officers, the watch mate, the watch engineer, the bosn and dayman the crew making rounds (the oiler) etc because they will need the key to just for routine work. The only crew without will be recent joiners and those that leave the keys in their room. Also the C/mate will have extras for the keys that get lost etc. Plus like I said those small locks are easy to cut.

Ths other issue is there is nothing the Coast Guard loves more then finding a violation of the ship’s security plan.

Every few years you have to order another set of locks keyed alike and throw the old ones out.

I agree that just throwing a lock on spaces like the CO2 room or the EDG room is a bad move. Most padlocks come with two keys. How do you track who has them or where they are kept? Or if a relief bosn uses a differant padlock your system breaks.

Using the same set of padlocks everywhere that open with the same key is better. Several spaces are kept locked in port. Basically you can’t make rounds or do your work without the padlock key. If a padlock goes missng and get changed out etc eveyone still has the right key, the system doen’t “break”

I carry three keys on my key ring, a master key for the doors, a key to the locked draws in my office and the padlock key.

A lot of vessels keep their CO2 rooms locked at all times as they are considered an enclosed space, and thus if you wish to enter it a permit to work would need to be issued and the atmosphere of the room tested plus all other enclosed space entry procedures be followed.

The logic is that if one of the CO2 bottles in a CO2 rooms were to leak it someone entering the room could asphyxiate. The padlocks are always in place so that no “lemming crew members “just walk in to the room without taking any precautions.

May also be a good idea to keep CO2 rooms secure when passing piracy areas, as some vessels put their citadels in parts of the vessel which are in areas protected by CO2, a pirate with a little knowledge about a vessel would know that a good way of “smoking out” crew from their CO2 protected citadel would be to go and release all the CO2 from their bottles into the respective areas. I that if most people were to hear the CO2 alarm go off they would rather exit their citadel than be asphyxiated.

Gents
If you Google Lash Alantico you may read a good reason for locking up the CO2 room while in port. The system was deliberately dumped into the engine room killing several and injuring more, some for the rest of there lives. This happened while ship was being repaired at Sun Shipbuilding back in 1981. Very Sad incident and maybe securing the room would have prevented it from happening.

You can put 5 locks on the co2 room but there is still the PULL station in the E/R and outside the machinery space.

[QUOTE=ciscocad;164451]Gents
If you Google Lash Alantico you may read a good reason for locking up the CO2 room while in port. The system was deliberately dumped into the engine room killing several and injuring more, some for the rest of there lives. This happened while ship was being repaired at Sun Shipbuilding back in 1981. Very Sad incident and maybe securing the room would have prevented it from happening.[/QUOTE]

What is done in a shipyard is a lot different then normal operation. That said, as the man said in the post above, locking up the CO2 room does not disable the pull stations. I googled LASH Atlantico and found very little with regards to how the accident happened other than “an errant signal” set it off. Having the door locked may not of helped in this case and who knows, maybe it was.

If unauthorized release is a concern, for example in the shipyard, the main valve can be closed and locked. Of course that means an extra step is required if it’s needed. It’s a trade-off.

Thank you all for the comments. We are operational, and not in shipyard. This came about as a result of a single bottle failing and venting its contents into the space. The concern is apparently that someone may enter the space after such an event and encounter an oxygen deficient atmosphere.

[QUOTE=injunear;164452]You can put 5 locks on the co2 room but there is still the PULL station in the E/R and outside the machinery space.[/QUOTE]

If you want to disable the CO2 system there are usually safety pins at the top of the bottles that when inserted prevent it from being released in the event of any attempt to activate it. That combined with padlocks on the door should be enough to prevent and accidental activation. Another option would be to remove the hoses that connect the CO2 bottles to the system, but that is maybe taking it a bit too far.

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[QUOTE=frogstomp81;164458]Thank you all for the comments. We are operational, and not in shipyard. This came about as a result of a single bottle failing and venting its contents into the space. The concern is apparently that someone may enter the space after such an event and encounter an oxygen deficient atmosphere.[/QUOTE]

If you head to the below link it details an incident where several people died in a CO2 room.

http://www.amsa.gov.au/aphomsa/archives/Meeting%209/Agenda%20Item%205%20Safety%20of%20People/Fixed%20CO2-Leung(HK).pdf

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;164437]I agree that just throwing a lock on spaces like the CO2 room or the EDG room is a bad move. Most padlocks come with two keys. How do you track who has them or where they are kept? Or if a relief bosn uses a differant padlock your system breaks.

Using the same set of padlocks everywhere that open with the same key is better. Several spaces are kept locked in port. Basically you can’t make rounds or do your work without the padlock key. If a padlock goes missng and get changed out etc eveyone still has the right key, the system doen’t “break”

I carry three keys on my key ring, a master key for the doors, a key to the locked draws in my office and the padlock key.[/QUOTE]

Why not use a combination padlock with the same combination throughout the vessel? That removes the need to carry a key around with you all the time, and saves precious time that people may use going looking for a key in an emergency.

Before anyone asks what happens if the code is forgotten or someone changes the combination, you can get security padlocks in which the combination cannot be changed. You can also get some like the one shown in the link below, which has a changeable combination, and a master override key.

^ That might work too. Whatever works best. Access aboard ship is something that reguires some thought. The piracy thing required lots of changes.

Our CO room is not a confined space officially but I think that’s going to change soon. We use a single low-pressure tank so it’s checked daily.

We can’t get away from carrying keys. About 95% of the locked spaces are doors.

People like to make fun of me but I use this little rig for my keys.