License Renewal Questions

Maritime Topics Maritime Training & Licensing
1

I’m one of those stupid people who let their license expire, in my case my 1600 ton Master/unlimited Chief Mate license expired in 2003. Even though I don’t have any plans to head back to sea anytime soon, I want my license back. I understand that I have to retake the exams, but I have a few more questions:

  1. I’m assuming that to renew the Master/Chief Mate combo I’m going to need to take the Chief Mate exam plus the extra module for the 1600 ton Master (which I believe pushes it to 10 modules… ouch), correct?

  2. What about flashing light, does this have to be done again?

  3. I also had a Tankerman-PIC endorsement. I read in the CFR that I can take an approved course to renew this. My question is that if I choose to renew my license now without renewing this endorsement, and decide later that I want to renew the endorsement, can I take still just take the class to renew or would I have to make the required number of transfers again?

  4. STCW – before I let my license expire I took all the required courses (GMDSS, ARPA,and Bridge Resource Management) except for BST. Since I don’t have any plans to go back to sea in the near future I don’t plan on taking the class now. I realize that this will limit any service to inside the boundary line, but are there any other implications on my license with the classes I already took? Are the courses I took back in 1999 still valid?

Finally, is there a time limit between the time I submit my application and the time I take the test. I’m aiming to take the tests in the fall, but would like to get the application started…

I’ve seen there are a number of people on this forum who have gone through this process and I’d be eager to hear your experiences!

2

You didn’t state specifically so forgive me for asking a stupid question, but you did apply for continuity beforehand correct? Because it was my understanding that a completely expired license (expiration + 1 year, without continuity) is gone for good and you start from scratch. Anyone clarify/correct?

3

[QUOTE=“wafinator;114553”]You didn’t state specifically so forgive me for asking a stupid question, but you did apply for continuity beforehand correct? Because it was my understanding that a completely expired license (expiration + 1 year, without continuity) is gone for good and you start from scratch. Anyone clarify/correct?[/QUOTE]

The sea time is still valid though. If he meets modern sea time requirements and has recency all he should need to do is retest. I’m not sure if he can test into “continuity” (no recency)…

4

[QUOTE=wafinator;114553]You didn’t state specifically so forgive me for asking a stupid question, but you did apply for continuity beforehand correct?[/QUOTE]

Nope, no continuity. That’s what the smarter version of me would have done…

5

[QUOTE=captobie;114541]…1. I’m assuming that to renew the Master/Chief Mate combo I’m going to need to take the Chief Mate exam plus the extra module for the 1600 ton Master (which I believe pushes it to 10 modules… ouch), correct?[/QUOTE]
As it has been over 10 years since the Chief Mate Unlimited and Master Unlimited exams were combined, the old Chief Mate only exam is no longer maintained, you’ll have to take the combined exam. Since you are taking the same exam as for Master Unlimited, there would be no additional modules for Master 1600.

[QUOTE=captobie;114541]2. What about flashing light, does this have to be done again?[/QUOTE]
Yes, it’s part of the requirements for an original unlimited license, and expired (for more than a year) renewals are treated as original applications (that’s why you have to take the tests again).

[QUOTE=captobie;114541]3. I also had a Tankerman-PIC endorsement. I read in the CFR that I can take an approved course to renew this. My question is that if I choose to renew my license now without renewing this endorsement, and decide later that I want to renew the endorsement, can I take still just take the class to renew or would I have to make the required number of transfers again?[/QUOTE]
It’s also treated as an original, and the entire requirements have to be met. But you can use the same transfers and service except for recency, see below), so thge net is just taking the course. You don’t have to this now and can do it at any time in the future. Either way, 2 of the transfers and 25% of the service (22 days) has to be within the previous five years. So you need the course, 22 days on a tanker, and 2 transfers.

[QUOTE=captobie;114541]STCW – before I let my license expire I took all the required courses (GMDSS, ARPA,and Bridge Resource Management) except for BST. Since I don’t have any plans to go back to sea in the near future I don’t plan on taking the class now. I realize that this will limit any service to inside the boundary line, but are there any other implications on my license with the classes I already took? Are the courses I took back in 1999 still valid?[/QUOTE]
All are still good, except basic safety training. The others have no time limit. You will need to re-take basic safety training. Also, if you were first licensed before 1987, and have never taken advanced fire fighting, you will need that.

[QUOTE=captobie;114541]Finally, is there a time limit between the time I submit my application and the time I take the test. I’m aiming to take the tests in the fall, but would like to get the application started…?[/QUOTE]
After your application is approved, you have one year to pass all the tests.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;114557]The sea time is still valid though. If he meets modern sea time requirements and has recency all he should need to do is retest. I’m not sure if he can test into “continuity” (no recency)…[/QUOTE]
For endorsements/licenses that have been expired beyond the one-year “grace period,” the recency generally isn’t applied, so only courses and testing have to be re-done. I said “generally” as the recency for the tankerman endorsement is still applied.

6

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;114557]The sea time is still valid though. If he meets modern sea time requirements and has recency all he should need to do is retest. I’m not sure if he can test into “continuity” (no recency)…[/QUOTE]

For endorsements/licenses that have been expired beyond the one-year “grace period,” the recency generally isn’t applied, so only courses and testing have to be re-done. I said “generally” as the recency for the tankerman endorsement is still applied.

7

Thanks so much for the information. Just one follow-up question… is the reason that I would need the course, two transfers, and 22 days for the PIC endorsement because it’s expired and is now treated as an original applications, rather than just taking the course for a renewal?

8

[QUOTE=captobie;114587]Thanks so much for the information. Just one follow-up question… is the reason that I would need the course, two transfers, and 22 days for the PIC endorsement because it’s expired and is now treated as an original applications, rather than just taking the course for a renewal?[/QUOTE]

Yes. Licenses and endorsements that have expired beyond the grace period are not renewals, they are actually original applications. The regulation [46 CFR 10.227(b)] actually says you cannot renew more than one year after expiration, so you’re not renewing, you’re applying for them as if you never had them.

You can use the tanker service and transfers you had before, but to meet the requirement for recency, 2 transfers and 25% of the time has to be in the last five years. While by years of (unwritten) policy we haven’t held these re-issues to the general recency requirements, there is another regulation [46 CFR 13.123] that is specific to tankermen endorsements that also requires recency. It’s that regulation that applies to your tankerman endorsement.

9

[QUOTE=jdcavo;114582]As it has been over 10 years since the Chief Mate Unlimited and Master Unlimited exams were combined, the old Chief Mate only exam is no longer maintained, you’ll have to take the combined exam. [B]Since you are taking the same exam as for Master Unlimited, there would be no additional modules for Master 1600.[/B][/QUOTE]

Wait, what? I submitted for C/M unlimited and 1600T Master and I have to take the crossover test. Should this not be the case?

10

[QUOTE=New3M;114612]Wait, what? I submitted for C/M unlimited and 1600T Master and I have to take the crossover test. Should this not be the case?[/QUOTE]
You shouldn’t, have to, unless you got the old chief mate only test. But, the test modules are auto generated based on everything you applied for, and an evaluator who is not knowledgeable may not adjust the list of modules. They did it to me. Last time I renewed, they told me I had to take the renewal exams for chief mate and master 1600. I appealed arguing that since the chief mate renewal test is the same for master unlimited, I shouldn’t have to take both. They agreed with the appeal, but it should not have been necessary to go to that. I suspect something similar might have happened to you.

11

[QUOTE=jdcavo;114615]You shouldn’t, have to, unless you got the old chief mate only test. But, the test modules are auto generated based on everything you applied for, and an evaluator who is not knowledgeable may not adjust the list of modules. They did it to me. Last time I renewed, they told me I had to take the renewal exams for chief mate and master 1600. I appealed arguing that since the chief mate renewal test is the same for master unlimited, I shouldn’t have to take both. They agreed with the appeal, but it should not have been necessary to go to that. I suspect something similar might have happened to you.[/QUOTE]

No it’s the new CM/Master test. I haven’t even taken it yet actually. The first letter I got listed the full course of exams for BOTH (CM and 1600) - 15 in total. I got that reduced to the one crossover test, but I didn’t know if I could argue that down too. Although I suspect that if you’re prepared for the CM/Master exam than the 1600 crossover test is a piece of cake.

12

[QUOTE=New3M;114619] Although I suspect that if you’re prepared for the CM/Master exam than the 1600 crossover test is a piece of cake.[/QUOTE]

When I sat for my second mate license I had no idea about the 1600 ton crossover test and had only studied for what I expected with the 2/M exam. Once I finished that, the guy administering the tests asked me if I wanted to take the 1600 ton Master test as well – I had no idea what he was talking about but decided “what the heck.” It was a piece of cake, as long as you are prepared for the unlimited exam. But the Chief Mate exam is so long as it is why put yourself through the extra module if you don’t have to?