Valid point but when we talk about these things in front of the kids they feel empowered.
EXTREMELY well said:)
I still say NUTS to all of you who don’t believe that the game is fixed.
I still say NUTS to all of you who don’t believe that the game is fixed.
.
And I say NUTS to all people who think a 23year old kid should just be handed a 1600 “Master” after a year at sea. What high level of qualifications did he attain in that year doing chart corrections, updating notice to mariners, checking the fire gear and counting how many feet of boom are in the enviro drum? Sounds to me like the game is tilted toward the academy kid. He fumbled around on the training ship for a few months. Then he fumbled around for a summer as a cadet. Then he went to sea for a year. BANG! Here you go fella your a Master now don’t let anyone tell you any different. After sailing a year he still can’t manage two deck hands on watch with him, much less an entire crew. If he went the other way he would have 4 years of practical experience. Still he would only be given a 1600 mate or 3rd mate not a masters license. Same holds true for 3rd A/E getting handed a chief limited oceans. In both instances the guy who hustled his way to the “lower level” license is being defecated upon just as you feel the unlimited guy is.
What is far worse are the ridiculous roadblocks to an unlimited 3rd mate license for mariners who have years of seatime sailing as master on vessels under 1600 tons.
What is really needed are “90 day wonder” programs at the academies to turn experienced limited tonnage masters into 3rd mates. What would that cost to produce much more highly qualified 3rd mates? The only reason that such programs do not exist is because the GAME IS FIXED by the academies and their alumni.
What is even more ridiculous is that an unlimited 3rd mate can get an unlimited master’s license solely with “seatime” accumulated on stationary oil rigs with out ever going more than 200 miles off New Orleans, or ever getting underway, in his entire career. That is a sick joke. At least half of the seatime for an increase in grade on an unlimited license should have to come from real ships that routinely get underway on real ocean voyages.
In the last two posts I agree with everything. You get no argument from me.
Damn you must have taken a double dose of pinkies today!
Hehee… You said the lesser of 2 weevils…
Ummm… “MASTER AND COMMANDER”
If I were to go for my unlimited master now I would have to go back to school and start all over because of when i tested. the new guys coming up are all testing for 1600 and after that doing assessments to get unlimited licenses it won’t be long fellows the market will be flooded with the unlimited licenses they are coming and they are not old salty sea dogs.
I think you forget that c.captain is a hawsepiper and rarely has much good to say about academy kids.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;75550]And I say NUTS to all people who think a 23year old kid should just be handed a 1600 “Master” after a year at sea. What high level of qualifications did he attain in that year doing chart corrections, updating notice to mariners, checking the fire gear and counting how many feet of boom are in the enviro drum? Sounds to me like the game is tilted toward the academy kid. He fumbled around on the training ship for a few months. Then he fumbled around for a summer as a cadet. Then he went to sea for a year. BANG! Here you go fella your a Master now don’t let anyone tell you any different. After sailing a year he still can’t manage two deck hands on watch with him, much less an entire crew. If he went the other way he would have 4 years of practical experience. Still he would only be given a 1600 mate or 3rd mate not a masters license. Same holds true for 3rd A/E getting handed a chief limited oceans. In both instances the guy who hustled his way to the “lower level” license is being defecated upon just as you feel the unlimited guy is.[/QUOTE]
So my question Fraq is have any of these punk academy 2nd mate wonders ever gotten a master’s position at your company (or any of the others in the GoM for that matter) without at least proving their abilities?
It’s one thing to get the license, it’s another thing to get the job.
[QUOTE=c.captain;75679]So my question Fraq is have any of these punk academy 2nd mate wonders ever gotten a master’s position at your company (or any of the others in the GoM for that matter) without at least proving their abilities?
It’s one thing to get the license, it’s another thing to get the job.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. Even if someone spent all their time on a rig and acquired their unlimited masters license there is no way lets say a tanker company would hire them to run master. Also it seems this thread is turning into a disgruntled rambling of “academy” VS “hawsepipe”. I got my XL bowl of popcorn continue gentlemen.
[QUOTE=New-mate;75686]This is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. Even if someone spent all their time on a rig and acquired their unlimited masters license there is no way lets say a tanker company would hire them to run master. Also it seems this thread is turning into a disgruntled rambling of “academy” VS “hawsepipe”. I got my XL bowl of popcorn continue gentlemen.[/QUOTE]
The point has nothing to do with academy VS hawsepipe, the point was pretty much everyone feels that the academy guys are simply handed to much in the way of a license with very little or no practical experience, to back it up.
The point of the 6000 ITC endorsement is for the most part a joke, that was fabricated by OMSA and the boat companys to make the rules fit what they want, and to get around a unlimited tonnage requirement for a specific class of vessel. There is in reality no difference between a 2900 ITC boat and a 3100 ITC ton boat. Yet if you do 56 days on an approved training platform and complete a silly check off list, that you were probably already doing 99 percent of already, does not make anyone more quailifed. There had to be a breaking point some where, and I guess this is the best they could come up with.
I don’t see where anyone has argued against either of these two points.
I guess back in the day no one for seen OSV’s going over 1600 ton so the rules were done for that tonnage now with stcw and needing bigger vessel to carry the cargo out to the rigs 1 boat can do the job of 4 so they added a little extra training and push to up tonnage the vessel is still doing the same job as before it is just caring more cargo then the old one’s. if everyone had to go unlimited at 1600 tons they would be a dime a doz now. maybe on the big ships they would have to be super unlimited
Yes the point was they are handed way too much way to fast. No I have not seen anyone getting the Master spot either…yet. Most (not all) feel they are due that immediate respect though. They feel after their exhaustive training and the year of dues paying at sea earn them the respect. Since the CG recognizes all of their efforts and awards them the Masters license we should follow suit. Since this is all by the rules as written and no one cries foul, why all the fuss about a 6000 endorsement. At least the guy getting it more times than not is a little more seasoned. This isn’t an academy vs. hawsepipe screed. As I’ve stated before in hindsight I should have listened to my father an attended myself. These boats aren’t getting any smaller or less sophisticated. I have had the pleasure of working with many recent engineering grads from Maine and Mass. In all instances they were intelligent and humble. I cannot say the same for some of the mates with the exception of a guy from Cal. We all know the Cal guys are usually laid back anyways.
It’s a matter of your point of reference. To a guy who had to work is way up from 100 and 200 ton boats, 1600 tons seems awfully big especially the way they way narchs are able to jam a lot of ship into a small tonnage these days. To a guy who has only been around 60,000 ton ships, a 1600 ton vessel seems like a rowboat.
Look at how small a 30 year old 1600 ton ship really is and it’s no wonder they they think they can be master. Part of the problem is that the licensing scheme is outdated.
Well obviously the system works since there have been no major incidents where the training of a large OSV licensed mariner was suspect. By all accounts the guys out there doing the job are doing it well and most everybody is satisfied so I cannot shit on the people. I am just very disappointed that the system made it so easy to go 3000 to 6000 because 6000 is not far away and then it goes to super large OSV (is it going to be set at 9000grt anchorman? I forget the legislation). There will be a massive diffference between 3000 and 9000 tons but I will not be surprised on bit if OMSA gets the USCG to do the same dance for them again with company run training. That is the real joke in all this. It is no training at all but just a little hoop the OMSA company mariners have to jump through. If the training were more strenuous, then maybe the UL master might be just a little more attractive to these companies since they don’t require all the extra classes and say a “new” full license exam.
My beef is that with the system being set up the say it is…unless an OSV company MUST hire a UL master they won’t and that sucks for this guy because frankly I hate drilling and want to back to the service vessel sidI just want a company to say, we need a guy like him rather than NO UL masters here. Please someone tell me how many UL masters are commanding US flag large OSV’s out there? I know they are commanding the subchapter D & I and foreign vessels (HOS ACHIEVER & IRON HORSE) but don’t know of any on the subchapter L vessels? Not at OCLLC for sure, any at ECO or HOS?
The Centerline and Strongline are multi certificated currently working as OSV’s. They are crewed top to bottom with U/L tonnage licensed people. They keep them crewed that way in case the vessel changes class for a charter. We do have the random U/L Master or chief mate floating around. They will hire any qualified licensed person. Im guessing the drill ships have a lock on most of your Masters and CM’s. Some of which taking a lower position in hopes of advancement rather than sail master on a lowly mud boat.