Actually the new rule is going to be 10,000 tons from what I have been informed
There is one unlimited master at OCLLC, there may even been 2 or 3, the one I know of for sure is a left over from the “DMT Emerald” that for some reason has never left. I hear they just hired one or two for that big sat dive boat that just went to Brazil.
The masters and mates onboard the HOS Centerline and HOS Strongline are unlimited.
[QUOTE=PR-9;75734]The masters and mates onboard the HOS Centerline and HOS Strongline are unlimited.[/QUOTE]
knew that…but that’s because they are dual (or is it triple?) inspection class vessels.
Really? I can’t imagine a boat company would refuse someone just because they hold the highest license possible. They don’t need you though, so they won’t pay out the ass for you, is that what’s bothering you? If there aren’t many unlimited masters on OSVs it’s probably because they leave to go drilling.
How do these large OSV training programs actually work?
What is an “observer”? What are his duties? Who does he replace on the COI? What does he do for the company to justify them giving him a paycheck for 56 days for being an “observer” ? Are the companies actually paying $750 a day for 56 days ( that comes to $42,000) to a guy just to ride along as an extra man and “observe”? Do those 56 days have to be underway or just time onboard? I suppose he also gets 56 days of DP time too?
He replaces no one on the coi and his duties are to learn. What does the coi have to do with anything? It is just the minimum, nothing else. Most of the companies with these large osv programs have way more people on the boat than the minimum. (And he will only get 56 days of dp time if they spend 56 days on dp, which is very unlikely.)
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;75782]Really? I can’t imagine a boat company would refuse someone just because they hold the highest license possible. They don’t need you though, so they won’t pay out the ass for you, is that what’s bothering you? If there aren’t many unlimited masters on OSVs it’s probably because they leave to go drilling.[/QUOTE]
They like the lower level guys but these companies certainly don’t want masters and it’s not about the money. It’s also not that all UL masters go to drilling. Remember the number of drillships out there are not a number like the support vessels so can only absorb a certain small number plus must promote from within. I believe that as far as masters are concerned, the OMSA companies do not want them and want their own which is the biggest reason for the large OSV license endorsement. Like I said, I am a realist and realize the system works so it will not change and as long as the companies do not have to change they’ll continue on just like they have been. I don’t blame them one bit either!
I just wished the " formal training" required was strong coffee and not the very weak tea that it is. This is a USCG responsibility and they’ve signed onto the OMSA lobbing so it goes. What happens now is what the USCG will do for the super large OSV’s that are coming? I feel they will just continue on with the status quo and nothing will change. Will the COI’s of those vessels have a specific chief mate? Will a super OSV master have to be a super OSV chief mate before becoming a super OSV master? That would at least mean having a UL master until such time that a super OSV master get the license. Anchorman…you are the expert here…what do you see happening?
Again, assumptions. There would be a lot more unlimited masters if not for the chief mate requirement and I don’t the companies would give a shit. They won’t take an unlimited master from a tanker, got example, and give him a position higher than dpo until he is trained, just like any other new mate/master. Maybe that is why not many unlimited guys are there, their egos are too big.
If you have osv experience why would you not be hired? Bias against your license? I call bullshit.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;75819] Bias against your license? .[/QUOTE]
Exactly that nothing more…hence why there are very few out there. Plenty want the DP and are willing to do the time as a ADPO, but why give them that time and training when you can get a kid right out of school who will be a better trained monkey.
I would say ego plays a part in it. I have met a few UL Masters and CM’s in the last few years. Many are arrogant and feel the training phase as new hires is beneath them. Some openly complain others suffer in silence as they realize it’s just a process. You can tell the silent ones are chafing at all the perceived “incompetence”’ around them. It’s just a mud boat it’s not like it’s a ship right? I bet some of these guys make a pass through the bayou just to say they did it while waiting for a drilling company to call. In the end they feel being a mud boat captain is beneath them. It still comes down to dick size. Do you want every to see you command the 300’ dick or the 1000’ dick?
I am not going to deny that outright but the times are a changing and many UL masters know offshore is the place to be and that the DP cert. is the golden ticket in the Wonka Bar. Like I said, I don’t blame the companies, their system works but it is just too easy which is exactly how this thread started. I just wished it was harder, included say 6 months of time on a large OSV and actually involved a couple day test administered by an REC. The company run programs were the massive “give away” here. If it were harder to get a large OSV endorsement then maybe not so many guys would get one and the companies might look “just a little bit harder” at a UL master? That’s all I am saying.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;75795]Are the companies actually paying $750 a day for 56 days ( that comes to $42,000) to a guy just to ride along as an extra man and “observe”?[/QUOTE]
Yes. We have 2 or 3 onboard at all times nowadays, engineers and masters. Some are great and work, some are not and dont do anything really.
And its anywhere from 725-800/day depending on what we are doing IIRC.
That’s amazing.
How do they select the people for this well paid training? They don’t do this for new hires do they?
UL masters…shipping has nothing in common with osv’s. No pilots to help navigate or dock, much less put a 60’ beam vessel stern into a 62’ wide slip. No “proper” bridge team to give steering commands to, you would actually have to make the course change. 60 or more targets on radar at any given time…on a 6 mile view (our cadets couldn’t believe the radar screen, saying on their previous ocean wise cruise they might have to zoom out 72nm to find a target to practice plotting.).
What’s so special about a 314’ OSV that the 1600/3000/6000 DP unlimited endorsed guys running 280’s now wouldn’t be better candidates than a UL guy from another sector. Is it because the UL guy took a crowd management course?
[QUOTE=rigdvr;75838]What’s so special about a 314’ OSV that the 1600/3000/6000 DP unlimited endorsed guys running 280’s now wouldn’t be better candidates than a UL guy from another sector. Is it because the UL guy took a crowd management course?[/QUOTE]
Nothing is special and the guys who drive them do so just fine. Again, my point is that the qualification to get the large OSV endorsement are too easy. That is what disenfranchises a UL master. To drive a 6000ton vessel we need to go through a lot to get the UL license so why shouldn’t a large OSV master not have to go though say half of what we do?
Yes, I know the game is rigged against the 3000tons guys to move to UL licenses but hey the jobs and the bucks are in offshore anyway so what is the attraction to just though the hoops to get a UL third mate anyway? This is coming from a guy who sees the light and it is shining in the offshore…not in the deepsea!
For as long as I can remember the UL guys told us lowly limited guys to stay in the oil patch and leave the real sailing to the pro’s with UL credentials. Now with the current pay scales and future potential UL guys are starting to cry foul. Just an observation.
I think few UL guys would be successful in transitioning to OSV’s. Things are just different, from dealing with clients to the way they are run. A lot would depend on previous experience. Just as not all OSV guys could make it in shipping. The sectors of the maritime world are becoming so specialized that the days of crews being competent enough to sail anything afloat are pretty much over, thank technology for that. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see sector licensing in the future, similar to how plane pilots can not simply jump from one aircraft type to another without specific training.
[QUOTE=rigdvr;75845]For as long as I can remember the UL guys told us lowly limited guys to stay in the oil patch and leave the real sailing to the pro’s with UL credentials. Now with the current pay scales and future potential UL guys are starting to cry foul. Just an observation.
I think few UL guys would be successful in transitioning to OSV’s. Things are just different, from dealing with clients to the way they are run. A lot would depend on previous experience. Just as not all OSV guys could make it in shipping. The sectors of the maritime world are becoming so specialized that the days of crews being competent enough to sail anything afloat are pretty much over, thank technology for that. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised to see sector licensing in the future, similar to how plane pilots can not simply jump from one aircraft type to another without specific training.[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ! Aren’t you hearing what I am saying? I am saying that the people running OSVs can do the job just fine. I only think the large OSV training is too weak and should be harder. That is exactly what others here have said as well. If you feel that the way it is set up right now then OK, you’re entitled to your opinion! I AM NOT SHITTING ON THE OSV MARINER!
For the record, I feel a large OSV should have a chief mate and first asst engineer but that will not happen. Will a super large OSV have them? I hope so, but that will be up to the Coast Guard and we know who’s side they take. Again, Anchorman…you know more about this subject than anybody here…what do you see happening? What does ECO want?
That’s not what I’m saying…we are doing a fine job and I understand you are not saying otherwise. I’m simply pointing out the irony in point of view towards the oil patch from 10years ago to today and how pay and potential have changed that view.
What additional training from your UL coursework do you feel would most benefit OSV guys when compared to the courses a 1600/3000 master already take? Im not familiar with requirements beyond 3rd unlimited.
I still stand by my view though that crossing from one sector to another will continue to get more difficult. Vessels are becoming more job specific and so are mariner skill sets.
I will use the DMT Emerald as an example. The COI on that boat was about 17 pages long, because it had so many different modes of operation. it was 4500 tons, so when they could use it under the OSV 6000 ITC rule anybody with a 6000ITC could sail on it. The next COI stated it as a general cargo ship, it then had to have unlimited master,unlimited chief engineer, so many mates, and assisstant engineers. The only place I remember seeing on the COI on that boat was ocean voyages or a voyage of 600 or more miles in length. Then it actually required a unlimited master, 1st mate, second, mate, and a 3rd, the same with the engine room, Chief 1a/e, 2a/e and a 3rd a/e. Of course it never left the GOM so it never fell into that last catogory. When I was there thtey did keep alot of unlimited guys on there just in case, it had to change modes of operation, that way the office would not have to be scrambling to get a whole new crew.
[QUOTE=cajuntugster;75385]You would think so but you don’t. Your time, 56 days must be on an “Approved training platform” that platform does not have to be over 3,000 grt[/QUOTE]
It’s part of the approval of every large OSV program. The 56 days has to be as a trainee on an OSV over 3000 GT. The approval of each program also identifies by name the only acceptable OSVs for this service.
