Nothing is up to me except to point out the obvious waste that KP is which I believe I have done quite adequately to date. Not one great KP’er has been able to challenge that and in the end all just capitulate and go away until another comes along only to do the same thing again. You and Mr. Grease will be next in line I am sure.
Trolling on the internet is not going to get you the answers you so desperately seek
No, I am not getting the answers I seek because no one can prove to this forum that I am wrong…you are just another to fail to do that and resort to posting silly little childish animations instead. Just pathetic and quite sad.
nor will it shut the doors to the worlds finest Maritime school.
Please tell me who believes this except other KP’ers? You mean that the maritime Academies in Germany, Great Britian, Norway, Japan, Peru and Batshitguanoland cannot provide a maritime education as good as KP? What literally makes the USMMA superior ro every other maritime training school on the entire planet? Did you ever stop to realize that at least 95% of the worlds merchant vessel offices ARE NOT American and that of those, at least 95% ARE NOT KP’ers? Is this something you are able to grasp?
What a ridiculous statement to make and it just further proves my point that KP doesn’t produce maritime officers any better that other schools because if you were a superior mind you never would have made such an indefensible statement in the first place.
[QUOTE=c.captain;59869]Nothing is up to me except to point out the obvious waste that KP is which I believe I have done quite adequately to date. Not one great KP’er has been able to challenge that and in the end all just capitulate and go away until another comes along only to do the same thing again. You and Mr. Grease will be next in line I am sure.[/QUOTE]
Whutz thiz werd meen? “capitulate”
[QUOTE=c.captain;59869]No, I am not getting the answers I seek because no one can prove to this forum that I am wrong…you are just another to fail to do that and resort to posting silly little childish animations instead. Just pathetic and quite sad that such a big education only produced such tiny results.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t go to Kings Point. Just like you my shoulders weren’t broad enough(other areas lacked as well) to make the cut. :*(
[QUOTE=c.captain;59869]Please tell me who believes this except other KP’ers? You mean that the maritime Academies in Germany, Great Britian, Norway, Japan, Peru and Batshitguanoland cannot provide a maritime education as good as KP? What literally makes the USMMA superior ro every other maritime training school on the entire planet?[/QUOTE]
Derp. Because its America and everyone knows that American is the best!
Who is is trolling now?
Are you going to accept my friend request? I have feeling we have lots in common. (see the lacking statement above)
[QUOTE=c.captain;59864]Oh but how I just love to point sharp sticks at over inflated buffoons like yourself and watch you blow up.[/QUOTE]
Wow … you are crazy ain’t cha c.captain.
[QUOTE=c.captain;59864]It’s not…rather it is a continuation of them and it is a subject with obviously stirs up the annointed like yourself. If you feel strongly about my claims just answer them with clear logic. It’s very simple. KP is WASTE…now prove to others here that it isn’t…[/QUOTE]
Ya got your ass booted out of KP didn’t cha.
You called my posts funny papers, cartoons, just like the total emptiness of who you are and what you have done as so comically posted by you on your profile information. You are an unhappy joke, spending all your time trolling.
[QUOTE=c.captain;59864]ps…what the hell is up with your username anyway…it doesn’t have anything to do with roids now, would it?[/QUOTE]
There you go attacking another member’s username, just as you did to mine, perhaps a more suitable username for you is Captain Looney Toons.
You are one unhappy crazy nut job, buster.
These will be the last words you will read from me, c.captain.
My best working days were aboard stick ships, as the First, back when the First was a day worker and the ship’s mechanic. I repaired pumps, boilers, and just about every piece of machinery aboard ship, I did get sweaty and dirty and loved the job. I sailed Chief Engineer but always thought my best days were as The First.
This is my final post on the thread, the engineer on the throttles is Sweat-n-Grease, a Kings Point graduate, a former Naval Aviator during Nam, now retired and enjoying ranching.
Acta Non Verba
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;59874]These will be the last words you will read from me[/QUOTE]
My dear Mr. Grease
Thank you very much for leaving and proving once again that this is is ending just as I predicted…another great KP’er who simply can’t make a winning case in court to convince a jury that their argument is valid and stands a real test based on the merits of the case only.
Nobody can win with silly name calling as you have ultimately have had to resort to doing. But so it goes with people who can’t win a true debate.
I rest my case ladies and gentlemen unless some other most excellent KPer wants to try to win this one for their ole alma mater? There can’t be many out there since I figure the really smart ones just chuckle to themselves that they got their free ride and are now making bank at their brokerage houses or law firms or collecting NASA retirements. They likely know that the place is a joke but why should they give a shit? They certainly got theirs now and we paid for all of it.
[QUOTE=c.captain;59869]
Did you ever stop to realize that at least 95% of the worlds merchant vessel offices ARE NOT American and that of those, at least 95% ARE NOT KP’ers? Is this something you are able to grasp?
bye y’all[/QUOTE]
92.7247% of all internet statistics are made up on the spot.
-Abraham Lincoln
[QUOTE=Bloodyshitcakes;59873]I didn’t go to Kings Point. Just like you my shoulders weren’t broad enough(other areas lacked as well) to make the cut. :*( [/QUOTE]
So why on earth are you wiriting just as if you are? It staggers the mind to think someone would want the world to think they were KP when they aren’t?
oh well…I apologize for that error (bet you didn’t think I had it in me…did you?)
[QUOTE=c.captain;59880]So why on earth are you wiriting just as if you are? It staggers the mind to think someone would want the world to think they were KP when they aren’t?
oh well…I apologize for that error (bet you didn’t think I had it in me…did you?)[/QUOTE]
Well, you were looking for someone to argue with, no?
Quotes below from this and other threads…
[QUOTE=c.captain;59880]I think everybody here already knows how I feel so I needn’t bother repeating myself unless I am pushed…so don’t push me LEST YE BE PREPARED![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=c.captain;59880]Now, back to our WWF slugfest already in progress[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=c.captain;59880]Next please[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=c.captain;59880]Next player please…step right up boys and girls! There’s always a prize and never a loser except everybody who pays federal income tax but who cares about them anyway? [/QUOTE]
I’m actually quite indifferent on the subject. If good old Uncle Sam doesn’t throw money out of this window into Long Island Sound he sure as hell will find another to throw it out of. The money could be pulled from KP but do you actually believe it will be redirected into strengthening the US Merchant Marine? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
I’m terribly sorry but since the subject of overinflated KP buffoons came up…I simply cannot resist poking my sharp pointy stick at this most immense one of all. THE UBER MOST GRANDIOSE POOBAH of KP buffoons! I swear I am not making this up and I can prove it!
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages…I present the embodiment of and the face behind the spirit of the United States Merchant Marine Academy. Please rise and behold his most high magnificentness Captain Kenneth R. Force USMS
Captain Kenneth R. Force, USMS holds a BM, MM and 6th year Professional Diploma from the Manhattan School of Music. He has an additional Masters Degree in Counseling from the New York Institute of Technology. Captain Force’s distinguished musical career includes assistant first trumpet with the Radio City Music Hall Orchestra; numerous Broadway shows; the Master Virtuosi of New York; and numerous free-lance positions. In addition, he was a member of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus Band under the legendary Merle Evans and the Clyde Beaty-Cole Bros. Circus Band. Captain Force received his bandsman’s diploma from the U.S. Naval School of Music in Washington, D.C. and subsequently served as a cornet soloist with the First U.S. Army Band at Governors Island, New York. Several years later, he served as Bandmaster for the 42nd Infantry (Rainbow) Division Band and the 319th “Statue of Liberty” Army Reserve Band. Captain Force was appointed as a professional consultant to Columbia Artists Management for sever British Military Band tours of North America. He co-produced the “British Salute to the U.S. Bicentennial Tattoo” in Newport, RI which featured a cast of over 5,000.
Prior to Captain Force’s appointment to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy as Director of Music in 1971, he was the Band Director of the Port Chester High School Band in Port Chester, New York. During his five years at Port Chester, the band rose in prominence and consistently won superior 6A ratings in concert music from the N.Y. State School Music Association. The groups also consistently won marching awards and remains the only high school band in America ever to be chosen to play for an actual performance of the Ringling Bros. Circus. After gaining fame in many tours and festivals, the Band was chosen in 1971 to march in the Tournament of Roses parade in Pasadena, California. Today former members of that band serve as music educators, department chairpersons, school principals and as professional playing musicians in major symphony orchestras throughout America.
Captain Force has written many articles on music for magazines and is also an arranger/composer. He was commissioned by the State of New York Bicentennial Commission to compose a Cantata for Chorus and Band based on the Inauguration of George Washington in 1789. He was subsequently commissioned by the State of New York, to compose a second Cantata based on the life of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., which received its premiere in 1986. Captain Force is a prolific writer whose articles have appeared in “The Instrumentalist,” “Musical America,” “BD Guide,” and several other publications. He is the author of the book “British Band Concepts in America” and is frequently called on to give clinics and guest conduct throughout the U.S. and Europe. The NY Times called him “…a human encyclopedia of military ceremonial and musical data.” Amongst the Bands he has conducted are the US Marine Corps Band (The President’s Own), The Band of the Black Watch, The Band of Her Majesty’s Grenadier Guards and Her Majesty’s Welsh Guards, The Band of Her Majesty’s Royal Marines, and The Dutch Royal Military Band as well as numerous College, University, and High School All-State Festival Bands.
Captain Force currently serves as President of the Board of Directors for the World famous Goldman Memorial Band who’s home is at the Damrosch Park in the band shell at Lincoln Center in New York City. This professional band is the third oldest music organization in New York after the NY Philharmonic and the Metropolitan Opera Company. The Band recently celebrated its 83rd Anniversary of presenting free summer concerts to the citizens of New York. He also serves on the Board of the Gramacy Brass Band, a very active professional band that performs throughout the New York City area.
In 2002, Captain Force was made an honorary member of the Alumni of the Merchant Marine Academy (a rare occurrence). Also in 2002, the USDAN Center for the Performing Arts honored Captain Force with a lifetime achievement award, along with actor Alan Alda and Betty Allen, from the Metropolitan Opera. In presenting this award, Dale Lewis, Executive Director of the Center, referred to Captain Force as an “American treasure.” Dana Giona, Chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts, cited him for his “…distinguished career as an outstanding musician and teacher representing a lifelong pursuit of excellence. I commend [him] for devoting [his] life’s work to one of the most soul-stirring of music’s genres - band music - and for [his] expertise as a composer, conductor and music historian. [I hope his] talents continue to inspire and uplift audiences for many years to come.”
In March 2004, Captain Force was elected to Honorary membership in the prestigious American Bandmasters Association which was founded by John Philip Sousa and Edwin Franko Goldman. (He is one of only eight individuals world-wide to hold that distinction.) In May 2004, he was presented with the Daughters of the American Revolution “Medal of Honor” for his dedication and service to the “Arts, Historic Preservation, and for his Patriotism.”
When I found this treasure I snorted my beer right out of my nose laughing my ass off. There is no question in my mind that this was written by the great exhalted one himself…only such a pompous idiot could obviously has no clue whatsoever how ridiculous all of this whole pile of offal reads For the love of God…how much do we pay this clown? I mean “a member of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus Band under the legendary Merle Evans” has to be worth his weight in spam! I mean we’re talking about the “legendary Merle Evans” here!
FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS…CAPTAIN KENNETH R. FORCE USMS IS THE KINGS POINT MAN OF THE CENTURY! NOW LET THE TRUMPETS BLOW HUZZAHs AND FLOURISHES FOR THE OUR VERY OWN GEM OF AN ACADEMY! MAY THE USMMA LIVE FOREVER!
[I]“captain kenneth r. Force usms is kings point man of the century!”[/I]
I was going to try to avoid poking sticks but this is just too good to pass up.
How come this guy is only a captain? With maritime qualifications like his I would have thought that one of the alumni pulling strings at MARAD would have made him an Admiral of the King’s Naveee or even better. I bet the guy can see the ocean from his office and that puts him way ahead of most of the graduates.
If they weren’t paying him out of the public pocket this clown would be funny. Maybe personally he is a nice guy, he seems to be quite musical in any event, but geez, if we need a caricature to illustrate just how inbred that institution is, he is at the top of the list.
Change the sextant in this old poster to a French Horn and there you go …
I was reading this thread with some interest last night. As a recent Graduate who isn’t overly vested in the Academy’s future I’m just a little put off by all the bad information being thrown around.
I’ll start out easy here: Uniforms.
Check out 46 CFR 310.10 and 310.11 which references the requirements for state maritime academies license programs.
All maritime schools where uniforms and march around because it is required by the CFRs in order to sit for license. The reasoning may be outdated but no one has ever accused the CFRs of being up to date. Kings Point may do it more than the others but you should see that as a positive. We hated marching and as the mighty taxpayer you were just getting more sweat for your investment.
Band.
I wasn’t in the band but it really was just an extra curricular for the students. Many college students participate in extra circulars and it seems kind of weird that it is a target. Many people in the band were tools but that is besides the point that that very little of your tax payer dollars is pumped into the band. If you compare with other service academies that have full time active duty military bands on staff, it is quite cheap. Capt. Force is the sole employee that deals with the band exclusively and at least there isn’t some big bureaucracy behind it. He may not be a real Captain but a lot of fake USMS officer positions were made to reduce costs. Tying salary to rank and not solely years of service gives the administration the ability to negotiate salaries in a different way than most federal service.
$86 million budget and the real meat of the issue http://mainemaritimealumni.org/index6ce0.html?act=202
The above is an interesting article, three years old but still interesting. The quote below is pretty straight forward.
"OMB statistic that a state academy graduate is 36 percent less expensive to train than his/her King’s Point (USMMA) counterpart"
So the questions was posed, why continue to keep KP around when a state academy graduate costs less? One word, control.
The government will pay a premium so that they have a say where you work for 5 years and the Navy has a pool of available bodies for 8. From 2007 to 2009, when there was a shortage of licensed officers in the industry, graduates (Active Duty Military excluded) were forced to sail with few exceptions. Most went down to the oilfield. In the past when there was a shortage of Naval Officers, graduates were forced into active duty service in the Navy.
The counter argument is that Kings Pointers don’t even fulfill their commitments but over the last 8 years that could not be further from the truth. The accountability and oversight has gotten ridiculous.
This is why the school isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. Unless the government can take over and re-structure state schools in a way where they can obtain a fresh pool of people every year, its not going to change. If the laws of supply and demand were given free rein in this industry, none of us would have a job and they are not going to allow the workforce to be ruled by market forces.
So to end.
Those that hate Kings Point and its graduates are hard to change but they shouldn’t paint everyone with the same brush.
[QUOTE=bacardi addict;59922]Unless the government can take over and re-structure state schools in a way where they can obtain a fresh pool of people every year, its not going to change. If the laws of supply and demand were given free rein in this industry, none of us would have a job and they are not going to allow the workforce to be ruled by market forces.
Those that hate Kings Point and its graduates are hard to change but they shouldn’t paint everyone with the same brush.[/QUOTE]
A “fresh pool” ?? What on Earth does that mean? There is a never ending stream of qualified merchant marine officers entering the system from State and private schools every day, not to mention the hawsepipe. The real military academies graduate youngies by the herd every year so there is no shortage of swabbies, grunts, and zoomies to feed that machine.
Just because some of us see KP as an obsolete relic of a need long since passed doesn’t mean we are “haters.” It is getting a bit tiresome to see that that “argument” is all that most supporters can provide. If you can’t justify KP’s continued existence for any reason other than it offends those who you believe “hate KP” then you have joined that growing group who validate the proposition that continuing to publicly fund KP is indefensible.
Personally, I hate the waste of taxpayer money at a time when the nation is on the edge of economic disaster. Even the generals and admirals understand the need to close outdated and redundant bases and facilities, why can’t MARAD? I will answer my own question, MARAD is “owned” by the KP alumni and that unholy alliance is maintained to feed the emotional needs of a microscopic group who bring nothing to the table that any number of other institutions can deliver at far less cost. The USA can no longer afford to pay such a premium so a handful of grads can get their heritage fix.
If you can tell the readers of this forum exactly what KP delivers to the nation that no other organization is not already supplying more economically, please do. So far the lack of valid reasons to exclude KP from the list of base closures and military facility cuts speaks much more loudly than marching bands and emotional claims and self promotion of a “heritage” that has no meaning beyond the hallowed halls.
Even MARAD figured out a training ship was a waste of money. That should tell you something.
You missed the point about the control so much you never once referenced it. The “fresh pool” I was referring too was the group of graduates that MARAD and the Navy control for the half decade after graduation. There is a constant stream from state schools and the hawsepipe but they are not under contract like those from KP. Why was there a shortage of licensed officers from 2007 to 2009? There was a gap that needed to be filled and it was by graduates of those and the previous years.
I never used the “hater” argument and I hate more aspects about that school than you could ever know. I never once referenced “heritage” because that wasn’t even near the point i was making. I don’t see the halls as hallowed and the schools continued existence is not feeding an emotional need for. I cannot attest to this alliance between the alumni and MARAD but still it is besides the point.
I thought I did give a valid reason and you have failed to even acknowledge it.
MARAD and the Navy want a group of graduates every year so they have the ability to control part of an industry they already manipulate with the Jones act and subsidies.
I agree about the worthless training ship and much of what you are saying. I don’t agree with the vitriol that has come out and the off base attacks.
[QUOTE=Steamer;59931]If you can tell the readers of this forum exactly what KP delivers to the nation that no other organization is not already supplying more economically, please do. So far the lack of valid reasons to exclude KP from the list of base closures and military facility cuts speaks much more loudly than marching bands and emotional claims and self promotion of a “heritage” that has no meaning beyond the hallowed halls.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly the question I have continued to ask which appears that no vocal supporter of KP is prepared to attempt to do which makes me wonder if they know deep down that it is in fact not answerable. That the continued funding of such an expensive, redundant and obsolete establishment cannot be successfully argued.
Kenneth Force is only the far too obvious poster child of how inbred and disfunctional the place really is and such a farsical character that he simply cannot be not lampooned. The real issue is VALUE and NEED here and that is what cannot be truly validated by anybody who so loudy claims that the USMMA is SO SPECIAL and MUST be preserved in perpetuity.
[QUOTE=bacardi addict;59936]You missed the point about the control so much you never once referenced it. The “fresh pool” I was referring too was the group of graduates that MARAD and the Navy control for the half decade after graduation. There is a constant stream from state schools and the hawsepipe but they are not under contract like those from KP. Why was there a shortage of licensed officers from 2007 to 2009? There was a gap that needed to be filled and it was by graduates of those and the previous years.[/QUOTE]
Please prove this statement with valid facts sir! Was one KP graduate placed “under orders” on an RRF or other federal government owned or controlled merchant ship between 2007 and 2009? They certainly weren’t in 1990-1992 when the biggest surge sealift since WWII occurred and when shortages of qualified American mariners was so acute as to be critical, yet the ships were manned and the goods were delivered and it wasn’t only KP’ers who did it. If KP’ers went in 07-09 because the unions were open is not valid because any maritime graduate had the same opportunity and calling up KP grads under their Naval Reserve obligation only proves my point that KP is not a “Merchant Marine” school but rather is in reality a mini Annapolis which on its face invalidates the mission of KP and the justification of it being called the USMMA. Since this is the case, take the place awaty from MarAd and offer it to the Navy to become the US Naval Reserve Academy for Christ’s sake and let the Navy pay for it if it wants the place although it still would be redundant and a huge waste of taxpayers money but at least it will become something real instead of the patent falsehood that keeps it funded by the US Congress.
Son, I am sorry but your extremely expensive publically funded education obviously lacked any course in basic logical thought or reasoning. Maybe you can try graduate school?
You seem to miss the point that at each and every maritime academy offers are made, accepted or rejected each and every year to join the USN, USMC, USA, or USAF, fulfilling the pool. I am curious how you came to this notion that your perception that the ‘pool’ exists but is only fulfilled by KP. I know that 4 friends of mine who happen to be MMA grads all took the USN offer, and even now after 12 or more years are still in the reserves. The difference (which you may not realize is THE difference between academies) is that to get the ‘free’ ride at KP, all entrants must agree to 8 years of indentured slavature. Because that is a cost of admission you should not be confused that it somehow ‘makes’ a KP graduate worth more than a state academy grad. I am NOT a grad myself, and possibly another one on here could enlighten all about the offers made at state academies, if and when the military extends offers or requires acceptance of a commission. I am fairly certain that the military can (if required or necessary) require all graduates of all academies accept a commission when/if needed. Perhaps this info would help some realize that a white elephant is NOT needed to fulfill this perception of ‘need.’
