[QUOTE=cappy208;59954] is that to get the ‘free’ ride at KP, all entrants must agree to 8 years of indentured slavature.[/QUOTE]
Sir, this is by far the most utterly ludicrous, asinine, and downright comical statement made by anyone so far trying desperately to support the unsupportable in this or any of the other pro/con KP threads.
I am so completely astounded and flabbergasted by it that I am simply unable to come up with any biting sarcastic retort which such a farcical statement so obviously deserves. That sir is a rare claim you can make…bravo to you.
[QUOTE=Steamer;59913][I]“captain kenneth r. Force usms is kings point man of the century!”[/I]
Maybe personally he is a nice guy, …[/QUOTE]
That sir is something I truly don’t believe for one nanosecond…with what this guy wrote about himself and how he said it must make him one of the most pompous blowhard arrogant windbags to grace KP’s many glorious years.
I am so completely astounded and flabbergasted by it that I am simply unable to come up with any biting sarcastic retort which such a farcical statement so obviously deserves. That sir is a rare claim you can make…bravo to you.
.
Unsure what / how you are commenting on.
That was a re statement that bacardi wrote earlier. I am not in favor of it, or defending it. In the context of the discussion that seems to be his only point of defense. As you have asked, and asked what seems to be the answer is what is up for debate.
[QUOTE=cappy208;59973]Unsure what / how you are commenting on.
That was a re statement that bacardi wrote earlier. I am not in favor of it, or defending it. In the context of the discussion that seems to be his only point of defense. As you have asked, and asked what seems to be the answer is what is up for debate.[/QUOTE]
my error Cappy…I misread your post and I apologize…
I suppose I should post this under “TMA walking the plank” yet it fits here also. As some of you all ready know, I’m a retired Merchant Seaman, that’s exactly what I call myself and it’s the only way, IMO, to describe what I am. Yes, I was an Officer, sailed as 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and Chief, but always thought of myself as a Merchant Seaman. I’m proud of that. My purpose for this message is simply this. During my three years at Kings Point, plus the one full sea year as a Cadet, it was my experience that those of us who enjoyed going to sea, wanted to use their License, did in fact use their License to sail during the last great era of United States shipping were the type of Cadets who didn’t gave a crap about “class rates,” marching, becoming so called Cadet Officers, never bothered harassing any cadets rather fixated themselves with simply getting through. Most of us never looked back. So, in closing, my recommendation is for all Cadets to do a little soul searching, if you really want to go to sea I bless you and encourage you, even in this dire financial market there are jobs available. Four years of your young lives might just turn out to be the singularly most important years of your lives. Keep focused on your objective which should be attaining your Third Mate’s, Third Assistant Engineer’s, License.
Then use it.
Happy New Year
posted by me earlier for our distinguished Mr. bacardi addict to answer
Please prove this statement with valid facts sir!
I ask you again to answer this simple question. Can you or will you even try?
somehow I very much doubt it, because this happens every time a deaf and blind (unfortunately not dumb) glorious KPer like our fine fellow blows their “oh but, KP is SPECIAL!” blather here but in the end they just fold their weak hand. They just can’t win and they know it!
[QUOTE=c.captain;60118]posted by me earlier for our distinguished Mr. bacardi addict to answer
I ask you again to answer this simple question. Can you or will you even try?
somehow I very much doubt it, because this happens every time a deaf and blind (not dumb) glorious KPer like our fine fellow blows their “oh but, KP is SPECIAL!” blather here but in the end they just fold their weak hand. They just can’t win and they know it!
simply pathetic[/QUOTE]
Seems my indifference to what was going-on at Kings Point over decades since I graduated caused my being unaware of the nearly continuous series of mismanagement of the Academy, one snafu after another it seems. Things must change and the heat is now on. I resented the KP mission, as existed during my years at the Academy, being morphed into something ridiculous. The mission was, and still should be, to produce Deck and Engine Officers who want to sail, PERIOD! I’m aware the sailing environment of today is not what it was when I graduated, yet, there are jobs.
I got one for you C.Captain. The reason it is maintained has nothing to do with with tradition pride or anything else related to that. Although there is nothing wrong with these things. It is federally maintained for the same reason that many other production lines (aircraft, warships, missiles etc.) in the military industrial complex are maintained when there is no pressing need. So when there is a need, be it tomorrow, or 50 years from now the pipeline is still open. The state of the US merchant fleet is pathetic and if there were ever an urgent need for vessels it would be disastrous. Considering it takes even longer to produce a competent officer it is even more critical to maintain this pipeline. I simply feel that they should be required to sail for the same period of time that products of the other service academies are required to serve. The federal government cannot control the State Academy grads… they can control KP’ers.
The cost issue is one that is completely moot. When compared to the cost of ONE F-22 Raptor (350 million per copy) the cost of maintaining KP (85 million per annum) is not even a drop in a drop of the barrel that is Federal Spending. Makes KP sound like the deal of the century to me. As it is, I am not opposed to the F-22 program using the same reasoning. It is in our national interest to ensure the R&D and production lines stay open to maintain our national security into the future. Do we need 1000 of them no, of course not. If you really want to curb spending start looking at unearned entitlements first. *I mean is it really the money that bothers you or an underlying issue?
Disclaimer: I have zero affiliation whatsoever with the USMMA,*
They alway are required to sail for a certain amount of time, I think 4 years. The problem is marad calls one “year” 4 months on a ship. (At least they did 12 years ago.) They should be required to get 4 years of actual sea time (1440 eight hour days) before their obligation is done.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;60206]They alway are required to sail for a certain amount of time, I think 4 years. The problem is marad calls one “year” 4 months on a ship. (At least they did 12 years ago.) They should be required to get 4 years of actual sea time (1440 eight hour days) before their obligation is done.[/QUOTE]
Yeah understood, but for example USNA grads have a 5/2 commitment. 5 years active, 2 Reserve, more if you take an Air Slot. I think KP’ers should have to sail commercial at least 5 actual years, almost guaranteeing many of them will leave the industry as Unlimited Masters, there is real value in that.
[QUOTE=Diesel;60205]I simply feel that they should be required to sail for the same period of time that products of the other service academies are required to serve. The federal government cannot control the State Academy grads… they can control KP’ers.[/QUOTE]
Ok here’s my rebuttal.
There is zero mechanism in place to take an IRR Naval SSO Program Reservist and place them “under orders” onto a commercially operated and manned merchant ship. Pray tell me how this could happen as long as government owned ships are not government run? Even in WWII the graduates went aboard merchant ships as civilian although they would be drafted into the military if they didn’t go to sea on a merchant vessel.
If MarAd uses the monety that is spend at KP to subsidize up to 100% the eductions of 5000 merchant officer students for the same cost as 800 KP midshipmen, will be not be given a MUCH larger “fresh pool” to call upon in a national emergency. American merchant mariners have proven to be ALWAYS ready to go to war when the need is there. In 1990-1992 there just weren’t enough qualified and experienced bodies available. It was the foreign mariners who refused to go into the war zone not Americans. Regarding the money issue. There is no reason we cant get the same numbers if we subsize 50% of those tuitions MarAd can cut that training budget by half. State school guys and gals would be THRILLED TO DEATH if they could get helf of their educations paid for. We can get more young people for less. How can those numbers be disputed?
If the Federal Government does subsidise 50% of a civilian maritime student’s education, they could be made to enter into a contract to serve if needed. If they refuse, then they owe the money spent on them back to the government. No federal income tax refunds until the money is recovered!
KP is clearly wasteful of the MarAd training budget and no longer serves its intended function and in reality has not done so since he end of WWII. But I can see why it was kept open as long as it was when the Cold War was on and we were afraid of another Battle of the Atlantic with the Soviets, but once that ended the school really and truly became redundant and frankly it was right about that time that the fraud and corruption there entrenched inself to such a staggering level. What is most important to remember is we are not speaking of the past when it comes to arguing whether KP was needed…we are speaking to today and years ahead. The federal government does not have the money to foolishly spend these days.
I agree with you entirely about the money spent at KP is a pinspeck compared to the DDX or any number of senseless bloated DoD weapons procurement, but that is not what this discussion here is about. It is about if we truly NEED KP?
There is zero mechanism in place to take an IRR Naval SSO Program Reservice and place them “under orders” onto a commercially operated and manned merchant ship. Pray tell me how this could happen as long as government owned ships are not government run? Even in WWII the graduates went aboard merchant ships as civilian although they would be drafted into the military if they didn’t go to sea on a merchant vessel.[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=c.captain;60225]2. If MarAd uses the monety that is spend at KP to subsidize up to 100% the eductions of 5000 merchant officer students for the same cost as 800 KP midshipmen, will be not be given a MUCH larger “fresh pool” to call upon in a national emergency. American merchant mariners have proven to be ALWAYS ready to go to war when the need is there. In 1990-1992 there just weren’t enough qualified and experienced bodies available. It was the foreign mariners who refused to go into the war zone not Americans. Regarding the money issue. There is no reason we cant get the same numbers if we subsize 50% of those tuitions MarAd can cut that training budget by half. State school guys and gals would be THRILLED TO DEATH if they could get helf of their educations paid for. We can get more young people for less. How can those numbers be disputed?[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=c.captain;60225]3. If the Federal Government does subsidise 50% of a civilian maritime student’s education, they could be made to enter into a contract to serve if needed. If they refuse, then they owe the money spent on them back to the government. No federal income tax refunds until the money is recovered![/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=c.captain;60225]KP is clearly wasteful of the MarAd training budget and no longer serves its intended function and in reality has not done so since he end of WWII. But I can see why it was kept open as long as it was when the Cold War was on and we were afraid of another Battle of the Atlantic with the Soviets, but once that ended the school really and truly became redundant and frankly it was right about that time that the fraud and corruption there entrenched inself to such a staggering level. What is most important to remember is we are not speaking of the past when it comes to arguing whether KP was needed…we are speaking to today and years ahead. The federal government does not have the money to foolishly spend these days.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, I agree. I, as a 1962 graduate, did not realize the depth of misuse, if I may use such a lame word, taking place at KP. I sailed and KP was way behind me. I assumed nothing changed but, oh it did. The mission when I graduated was simply to produce competent Deck and Engine Officers, today I’m embarrassed to post what the grand and noble mission morphed into. I have a friend in my neck of the woods who graduated from West Point in 1960. We chat, I showed him the “new” mission, he looked at me and asked “WTF is THAT?” I simply shook my head. What could I say?
[QUOTE=c.captain;60225]I agree with you entirely about the money spent at KP is a pinspeck compared to the DDX or any number of senseless bloated DoD weapons procurement, but that is not what this discussion here is about. It is about if we truly NEED KP.[/QUOTE]
Interesting - things must change. With MARAD in control you can be sure another SNAFU is right around the corner. I need to post that when I entered KP in August of 1958 it was indeed a U. S. Merchant Marine Academy.
Management verbiage is so convoluted that there are times it’s impossible to figure out just what they are saying.
Do they go to school for that?
Take a look, what do you read between the lines?
Oh my, they really don’t have any real idea what they are anymore there…do they?
DOT Unveils Plans for Kings Point
Wednesday, January 04, 2012, 3:59 PM
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood United States Merchant Marine Academy Begins Strategic Planning Process
The United States Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA) today began work on a comprehensive strategic plan that will develop long-term objectives and institutional goals. The USMMA will undergo its next accreditation evaluation in 2016 and a core requirement of American higher education accreditation is that an academic institution has a current strategic plan.
“The U.S. Merchant Marine Academy is one of my top priorities,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood. “This plan will provide a road map to help us better prioritize investments and help the Academy provide a first class education for all Kings Point midshipmen.”
The strategic planning process will be led by USMMA Acting Superintendent Shashi Kumar. During the first part of this multi-phased effort, the Academy will work with the John A. Volpe National Transportation Systems Center in Cambridge, MA to lay out a formal planning process. Over the next few weeks, Volpe staff members will work with key internal stakeholders to identify the range of issues and critical questions that should be addressed in the strategic plan.
After a formal approach is finalized, the Academy led team will begin a comprehensive outreach effort to the maritime industry and other stakeholders to ensure the Academy’s strategic plan addresses the Academy’s statutory mission, the needs of the maritime industry, and American higher education accreditation expectations.
“This plan will provide the strategic vision for the Academy and strengthen our ability to attract a talented and diverse student body to serve the maritime needs of the nation” said USMMA Interim Superintendent Shashi Kumar. The Mission of the United States Merchant Marine Academy is to graduate Merchant Marine officers and leaders of honor and integrity who serve the maritime industry and Armed Forces and contribute to the economic, defense and homeland security interests of the United States.
I am genuinely beginning to believe that even MarAd knows now that the jig is up and they have got to come clean and must justify that the stinking sewer they have created can be somehow be sanitized so it doesn’t reek to high heaven. The question is can they?
[QUOTE=c.captain;60326]Oh my, they really don’t have any real idea what they are anymore there…do they? [/QUOTE]
Perhaps a “formal approach” will make things better.
[QUOTE=c.captain;60326]I am genuinely beginning to believe that even MarAd knows now that the jig is up and they have got to come clean and must justify that the stinking sewer they have created can be somehow be sanitized so it doesn’t reek to high heaven. The question is can they?[/QUOTE]
A “strategic planning process” is underway which translate into they haven’t a fook’en clue what to do.
A “strategic planning process” is underway which translate into they haven’t a fook’en clue what to do.
Actually, as I thought about it, IMO, they do have more than a clue, they want to protect their jobs, CYA comes into play.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;60357]A “strategic planning process” is underway which translate into they haven’t a fook’en clue what to do.
Actually, as I thought about it, IMO, they do have more than a clue, they want to protect their jobs, CYA comes into play.[/QUOTE]
??? I can’t believe government employees would be only concerned for their jobs! Haha. I believe it was Farragut who said: ‘Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.’. Sounds like a modern day Farragut is driving KP. Who cares what the industry needs, who cares what mariners need. Just keep my job in academia. Bleech. I got a better suggestion for all these lilywhite armchair sailors. Go out into the industry. See how prepared YOU are to compete in the existing job market and see if you are preparing your graduates appropriately!
[QUOTE=cappy208;60392] I got a better suggestion for all these lilywhite armchair sailors. Go out into the industry. See how prepared YOU are to compete in the existing job market and see if you are preparing your graduates appropriately![/QUOTE]
It’s obvious, they are far away from the reality of today’s maritime needs. One of the main reasons the MEBA started their own Engineering School and a great learning experience. It’s not just for engineers, mates take classes at Calhoon.
