How to get engine department letter wrote, for a deck mariner

Maritime Topics Maritime Training & Licensing
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I am a newer entry-level mariner trying to get both deck and engine credentials before deciding which direction I ultimately want to go.

I am hopefully about to get RFPNW, PSC/LB, and AB-Special. After that, I am debating whether to continue toward AS-D or temporarily pivot toward RFPEW and QMED/Oiler. I have seen people recommend getting QMED/Oiler before RFPEW, especially since the QMED coursework and exams are more substantial than RFPEW?

I work on small near coastal inspected vessels with engine rooms, and every employee aboard holds an MMC (not like Fishing where no TWIC required). My employer apparently allows unlicensed crew to request either deck- or engine-department time on our sea-service letters, depending on what we elect and prefer, with a stipulation. I suspect this gives me an opportunity to accumulate legitimate engine time without leaving my current job to find a dedicated wiper position.

If I might eventually pursue DDE and/or Third Engineer, what exactly should I make sure my employer includes in an engine-department sea-service letter?

I remember reading on Facebook, Reddit, or gCaptain that certain wording or information is particularly important for getting the time credited toward engineer officer endorsements, but I embarrasingly cannot locate what I read.

I mainly want to avoid accumulating hundreds of days of engine time only to discover years later that my letters are not sufficient for officer rating(s).

One thing I want to make clear, I don’t have any illusions that I’m on some fast track to become an Unlimited Master and Chief Engineer simultaneously, or that I’m somehow some wunderkind super mariner; I’m just a new mariner learning how to be a decent OS/wiper.

Any advice from engineers or people who have actually submitted similar sea-service letters to NMC would be greatly appreciated. If you have both RFPEW and RFPNW simultaneously, I’d love to hear from you about living on both sides of the paradigm, and if that has helped you get good jobs and make more money. Thank you!

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https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/professional_qualifications/crediting_sea_service.pdf This is the standard. I’ve used letter similar to what’s on page 10 for years.

For engineer seatime, make sure it says you were working as a wiper and has the propulsion type and horsepower.

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I was under the impression that engine seatime letters are supposed to have some verbiage or something. Is it supposed to say “worked at the behest of this person” or “worked underneath a licensed engineer”?

If it doesnt have some specific wordage you can never use the letter to become a DDE and/or third engineer?

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My seatime letters have NEVER said “at the behest/underneath a licensed engineer”. They state the particulars of the vessel, dates, and what position i held onboard, etc. And I used them to get a DDE, 3rd, and 2nd.

Once again, “I was under the impression, I thought, I heard, etc” is doing too much as it seems to do in your posts. I gave you the link for the USCG STANDARD for seatime letters with examples, including the entire section on small boat seatime requirements and you still question it. I really don’t know what else you want from your posts. I feel like you just enjoy arguing.

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I’ve spent a couple hours trying to find the post and I have not been able to find it. It’s like my google history doesnt actually save any weblinks anymore, which is frusturating. I wish I had a verbatim quote to provide in the post

Please don’t comment on my posts any further if you feel I am disrespecting you

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Dude he gave you the actual CG requirement from the actual CG…your google search doesn’t matter.

You shouldn’t be searching google, you should be taking the requirements directly from the USCG NMC website, which happens to be what the above poster thanklessly provided you.

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Start with NMC Website Checklist.A.K.A Maritime Cliff Notes.

For deck department - The checklist for National 500/1600 Near Coastal Waters indicates one of the following sea service requirements as:

  1. 180 days of service while performing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or a qualified officer. This must be documented.

If you want the actual regulation it is provided in the checklist as 46 CFR 11.416.

Now it becomes your obligation to weed through the National Engineering checklists to find if there is a point in the engineering pathway that requires similar language for any Engineering Officers position.

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This isn’t Schrödinger’s deck engine utility. I can’t speak to whether an employer will write a letter, but if you have one letter for both engine and deck positions you are going to need to have a breakdown of how much of the total was in the deck department and how much was doing engine stuff. You can’t use the total for both endorsements, e.g. if you are on board for 3 months you don’t get 3 months engine time AND 3 months deck time, you get however much of the 3 months was sent on deck and how much was engine.

For OICEW part of the service requirement is at least 6 months “having performed engineroom watchkeeping duties, under the supervision of an officer holding the STCW endorsement as Chief Engineer Officer or as a qualified engineer officer.” You need to provide evidence showing that. See 46 CFR 11.329(a)(4).

Watchkeeping is an STCW requirement, there is no such requirement for 3rd AE or DDE so you can use that letter. You can also use the letter for part of the 36 months required service for STCW OICEW, you just can’t use it for the OICEW requirement that 6 months of the total was performing watchkeeping.

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Not to be too nit picky but I received a sea service letter years ago that had…

“from XX November XXXX to XX June XXXX Mr. Mariner preformed the duties as a bridge watch stander under the direct supervision of a Licensed Deck Officer, in accordance with 46 CFR 11. 407.”

It was from a small organization and I have never received another sea service letter with this wording, but I’m sure that there could be more out there.

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For me, it’s an identity crisis. I started as a deck guy and quite innocently became an engineer down the road, somewhat by accident. Since I got my first engine license in 2013, I’ve only worked the wheelhouse maybe around 3 years? For me, its been easier to make a better day rate and get better opportunities with my engine license. I feel no matter what, there will always be more interest in the deck side than the engine side.

It would be a very tough nut to crack to get both nowadays, especially with the stcw endorsements. I had most of this done well prior to 2017. I think it would still be fairly easy to get dual ratings (AB/QMED) with the stcw stuff, but the officer endorsements will be a challenge for both. May have to pick one or the other at some point.

Few years ago I had a mate job. Best I ever had. My daughter was graduating high school and going to college so I’m like ‘I gotta make more money’! I knew where I was working at, that advancement was slow, so I asked to go back to being an engineer when an opening popped up. Few months later there I was making around 250 more a day than my mate job (but not as happy) :winking_face_with_tongue:

With that being said, being in my late 40s now, I’ve been out of the wheelhouse long enough that it would be hard for me to go back. Functionality wise. I briefly did it almost a year ago and I definately felt out of my element unfortunately.

I had a captain a few years ago tell me ‘whenever I work with a dual licensed guy, they either are a complete jack ass and can’t do either good…or they are good at one and suck at the other. Which one are you?’ Great question that I can’t answer.

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Yea I could’ve sworn I was reading about niche scenarios where this wording is actually desirable, but embarrasingly I wasn’t able to bavigate back to it and I’ve been so busy I haven’t had time to look more the past few days. Thank you for sharing your experiences

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Blockquote “feel no matter what, there will always be more interest in the deck side than the engine side.”

Does this mean, ‘I find the deck side more fufilling and/or enjoyable than the engine; i prefer deck work to engine work, not withstanding engine’s less competitive job market and higher wages’

Or are you simply pointing out that there is more demand for engine men and not a surplus of competent engine men the way there may be a surplus of ABs and mates and masters?

Blockquote"May have to pick one or the other at some point."

My thinking exactly, although as a layman with no business guessing, I’m gonna unintelligently speculate it’s very probable that if god forbid for whatever reason, an engine officer wanted to become a deck officer, or vis versa, I speculate it’s a helluva lot easier for a mate to start over hawsepiping from QMED/AS-E than it is starting over from the bottom as a wiper, and vis versa, an engineer starting over from AB/AS-D is better than starting over from O.S.. not to mention if the industry contracted tomorrow, if a mate has an AB/AS-E rating, and it suddenly becomes very difficult for mates to find work, maybe you could still eek out a decent existence as a QMED/AS-E while you work on becoming an engineer… i’ve also heard people say if the Jones Act is ever torn up, the mates will all be replaced tomorrow by foreigners but the engineers may survive… not sure how intelligent hypotheticsl statements like that are

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Blockquote “You can’t use the total for both endorsements, e.g. if you are on board for 3 months you don’t get 3 months engine time AND 3 months deck time, you get however much of the 3 months was sent on deck and how much was engine”

This confirms what I suspected. At my job they say “do you want engine or deck time, or half and half?” I have got the impression that in prevuous decades you could eek out both simultaneously in full, and I’ve heard people say “write deckhand with enginerring duties on the CG-719S so you get both!” But I’m under the impression the coast guard hasn’t been that lenient and flexible in a long time.

Blockquote"This isn’t Schrödinger’s deck engine utility." As a childhood Stargate fan, I was recently asking a computer engineer to explain Schrodinger’s cat to me. Poison gas. Gonna have to take a coupoe more years to wrap my head around how the abscence of knowledge of the cat’s mortality means both are simultaneously true

Blockquote “For OICEW part of the service requirement is at least 6 months “having performed engineroom watchkeeping duties, under the supervision of an officer holding the STCW endorsement as Chief Engineer Officer or as a qualified engineer officer.” You need to provide evidence showing that. See 46 CFR 11.329(a)(4).”

Thank you so much, this clears up the whole thing. I guess I was onto something, and what I originally read was based in truth all along. I was starting to doubt my judgement. I guess to get OICEW you need to spend 180 qualifying sea days on a large boat, large enough to warrant a Chief Engineer, and your company needs to write the letter correctly to reflect.

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I’m saying generally speaking its easier for an engineer to find a job than a mate. Easier for a qmed to find a job than an AB. I feel more people are enchanted with boat handling and navigation than being a magician and working on MSD systems.

I’d be curious looking at maritime academies. How many 3rd engineers come out in a graduating class and how many 3rd mates? Is it 50%50%?

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Schrodinger originally composed this thought-experiment as a criticism of the emerging theories of quantum mechanics, which he did not believe. It has taken on a life of its own.