Well I guess a lot has to do with tradition!
I am not sure we are stereo typing academy grads as much as we are discounting casual maritime academies. the best defense against somebody who calls you a POS before asking your name is to say, well maybe I am but I hope you can change that. Myself, I like to mode and shape people into my image LOL , If you like to learn, I;m willing to teach. The more successful i can make you, the better chance I have of you getting me a job down the line.
If academies are an easy way into the industry why don’t everyone go to one? I tell you why! because is not as easy as hawspipers will like for people to believe. Then they tell you they didn’t have money to go to college BS!!! I didn’t!! And now I have a S$&@ ton of student loans and I had a part time job.
I think it is much more beneficial when they have been knocked down a peg before they enter the real world. Cause your momma don’t work here.
Any new KP grad who is egalitarian and has a sense of entitlement clearly missed the lessons he/she was supposed to learn at school. I spent my first year cleaning other peoples heads and showers and getting other peoples food for them at meal times. If that doesn’t teach you humility then you’re trying not to learn. The system is supposed to teach you to be responsible for yourself first and then gradually build to being responsible for others and finally multiple layers of people. Sounds exactly like what you should be learning to me…
See this is exactly what I was thinking the entire point of a regimental system is for at the academies. Others however feel that its a waste of time and it would be better off being a normal college life style. Any more input into this?
All quasi-semi military style academies are designed to break you down, and build you back up and slowly introduce leadership qualities in later years. The other option is the frat boy who graduated from the party cruise training ship to be your next 3M. Regardless of whether or not you like a academy graduate, I feel that the coast guard implemented a regimental system for a reason.
The people that I have come across, that have attended academies that have no military style, had no leadership ability, had no sense of responsibility for the crew, and apparently came out just as immature as they went in.
Should we start a petition to abolish the regimental system at all academies? I’ll start taking names.
My entire point of this post was to figure out “how militaristic or regimented an academy is”. Otherwise, please explain to me why I’m spending all this money on uniforms and other corp of cadet activities if it is not needed! If I’m paying for this Corp, I would prefer to actually have it implemented to its full potential and not run around in uniforms like a dress up queen for nothing. Did that make any sense?
I have also meet plenty of retired military men (army, navy seals, and USCG) out here that have no leadership skill. Some of them are actually the worst shipmates I ever had!!! With that said I do not believe that a military regiment has a effect on the way a person will conduct themselves when put in an adversed situation or every day to day situations. It’s up to the individual!
Also I am not trying to generalize or disrespect all Military men!!! I have lots or props and respect for our troops!!
Every system has the same strength and weakness … the people involved. Every class has its own vibe. Some are more regimental than others and you can see its affect on the lower classes. The plebe class tends to take on the personality of the senior class. The point is that you will get out of it what you put into it, that its not the system that is good or bad but the people implementing it.
I feel that the coast guard implemented a regimental system for a reason.
I wasn’t aware that the Coast Guard mandated a regimental system for maritime schools. That was the choice of the school themselves. This is purely a guess on my part, but I suspect it is partially due to the close relationship of the Navy and Merchant Marine throughout history and an outgrowth of the WWII era Merchant Marine which essentially was a uniformed service.
My entire point of this post was to figure out “how militaristic or regimented an academy is”. Otherwise, please explain to me why I’m spending all this money on uniforms and other corp of cadet activities if it is not needed! If I’m paying for this Corp, I would prefer to actually have it implemented to its full potential and not run around in uniforms like a dress up queen for nothing. Did that make any sense?
If you are looking for something hard core, I’m curious why you are even going to a maritime school? Why not go right into the military. There is always VMI or the Citadel too.
I do believe the coast guard does mandate a regimental system.
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;53100]
If you are looking for something hard core, I’m curious why you are even going to a maritime school? Why not go right into the military. There is always VMI or the Citadel too.[/QUOTE]
Good question. I am not really wanting something hard core, i’m just trying to figure out the reason for the regimental system if its not really a regimental system. I would rather not spend my money on it. The reason i am not going to VMI or the Citadel is I will be going for my masters, and find the maritime lifestyle and degree plan fitting to me. Upon graduation, I will be applying for a commission, but want the education offered at this school that is not at others to fall back on. KPEngineer, you did graduate from the most regimented Maritime Academy,
I have also meet plenty of retired military men (army, navy seals, and USCG) out here that have no leadership skill. Some of them are actually the worst shipmates I ever had!!! With that said I do not believe that a military regiment has a effect on the way a person will conduct themselves when put in an adversed situation or every day to day situations. It’s up to the individual!
Also I am not trying to generalize or disrespect all Military men!!! I have lots or props and respect for our troops!!
Good point, I would agree its up to the individual. However, the military has both leaders and followers, more followers then leaders however (obviously far less Officers and higher NCO’s then the rest) I wonder how many of your mates where commissioned officers?
Just again trying to figure out the reason behind the regimental system if it really isn’t, and why then am I spending extra money on it? I guess I will find out shortly, and have already dropped thousands of dollars on uniforms and corp supplies. I hope its for a reason, and not just to be the kid in class wearing a spiffy uniform.
Thank for the replies and taking the time to listen to someone who really does not know, but is just trying to understand a few things. No one will agree on everything, but it is very interesting to hear from you all who are out there doing the real thing, what you have worked hard to do.
If someone wants to be a good cook they need to cook often. If they want to be a good athlete they need to train. And if someone wants to be a mariner they polish their shoes, PT twice a week, march around and play dress-up?
Where is the logic in this stupidity? How does training to be a shoeshine-boy earn sea time? Polishing our shoes isn’t a common duty at sea or in port so why teach that worthless junk?
The academy military system must be a USCG requirement simply because it’s a worthless waste of time someone can point to and say, “Look what I did!”
How militaristic is TMA? More than it needs to be.
The regimental system is in the CFRs. In order to get a 3M from a training school you need to be in a regimental system for a minimum of three years.
Polishing our shoes isn’t a common duty at sea or in port so why teach that worthless junk?
It teaches attention to detail, all the other things evaluates people who can recognize what is expected of them and can perform against those who just rebel because they just can´t figure it out.
You’r saying it’s better for our youth to learn humility than teaching good management and a little common sense. Maybe that’s why the coast guard makes us attend BRM courses.
DeckApe - I think you may be missing the point a little. The regimental system is about training the kids to be ahead of the rest of their 22 year old peers in maturity maturity and responsibility (not saying it always happens, but that’s the point). What taught me to be a mariner was all the labs I took at school where we disassembled engines, worked on electrical equipment, welded, built things in machine shop, raised and lowered the lifeboat and ultimately my year at sea on a working cargo ship all BEFORE I even came close to taking any license exams.
Capt. Schmitt - The CFRs just say graduation from a Maritime Academy as ONE path to a license. Nothing mandates that that Maritime Academy be regimental in nature but they just all happen to be so. I believe that at some schools the regiment is an option and you can still matriculate as a commuter student with no regimental duties.
Mikegb88 - See the regiment for what it is. If your intent is to gain a commission (are you talking Reserve or Active Duty?) then it will be a more valuable experience to you than it may be to others. You will be ahead of many of your ROTC or OCS peers when you do get your commission because you will have experienced a regimented system basically every day for 4 years.
When I was at cma I remember something about the fact that marad giving the school $ has some sway on things.
“Casual” Maritime must not get much then 
I contribute to the CMA alumni association. If the school were to abolish the core, They would not see another dollar from me. They already screwed up the core I knew. 3E gone, but not forgotten!
[QUOTE=KPEngineer;53122]Capt. Schmitt - The CFRs just say graduation from a Maritime Academy as ONE path to a license. Nothing mandates that that Maritime Academy be regimental in nature but they just all happen to be so. I believe that at some schools the regiment is an option and you can still matriculate as a commuter student with no regimental duties.[/QUOTE]
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title46/46cfr310_main_02.tpl
Fair enough. I was thinking about the section for original 3/M and 3A/E licenses which only says “graduation from a maritime academy” and nothing about regimentation.
However … All it says in there is that you have to have rules, hand out demerits and have some kind of uniform. It doesn’t say how many rules you have to have, demerits you have to give or what kind of uniform. I can make a uniform out of shorts, a t-shirt and a visor and as long as there is an emblem on the visor I meet the letter of the law. I can have one rule, pass license or I’ll give you 1 demerit if you don’t. That’s all within the letter of the law but a far cry from a real “regimented” system.
I think there may me more guidelines in the marine academy act of 1958 that cfr constantly references. But in essence you are correct. That is how the different academies have such different levels of strictness and get away with it. The law says there must be a regiment but does not say how strict it must be.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;53107]If someone wants to be a good cook they need to cook often. If they want to be a good athlete they need to train. And if someone wants to be a mariner they polish their shoes, PT twice a week, march around and play dress-up?
Where is the logic in this stupidity? How does training to be a shoeshine-boy earn sea time? Polishing our shoes isn’t a common duty at sea or in port so why teach that worthless junk?
The academy military system must be a USCG requirement simply because it’s a worthless waste of time someone can point to and say, “Look what I did!”
How militaristic is TMA? More than it needs to be.[/QUOTE]
So how does shining shoes, marching around, and dressing in uniforms make a west point cadet a better warrior and soldier? It is only one part of the picture, but I can assure you it is there for a reason or it would not be so. Look at the Navy, why on earth would their OCS School, federal academy, basic training, and so forth institute these same principles when its pointless?
I’ve been involved with athletics. Yes training is obviously important, but learning to listen to your team captain, and learning to be a good team captain is also important to the continual development and success of the team. The “militaristic” principle behind this is learn to follow first being a freshman, or “fish” in my case, then gradually learn to lead others. This can obviously be learned by on the job training, but not being on the job and being in school, this gives an opportunity to learn at the same time we are hitting the classes. It gives time to see what works and what doesn’t and to better the “listen and lead principles.” Then when the job comes, just like the others who have not been to an academy, the leadership can be improved upon even more.
[QUOTE=PR-9;53045]It’s a curriculum implemented by the USCG… [/QUOTE]
No it’s not. If anything, it’s from MARAD. While MARAD’s regs at 46 CFR Part 310 do not specifically mandate a regiment, the overall implication of this sub part is that one is required for MARAD approval and funding. The Coast Guard only reviews the curriculum for STCW and applies the same standards it does for all STCW programs. The Coast Guard has approved non-regimental programs at MITAGS, PMI, Maine Maritime, and also the SUNY Maritime graduate degree/3rd Mate program.