Hawsepipe means you start at the bottom and work your way up.
It takes years, and depending on what tonnage, horse power and route your vessel works, you can eventually get a license and then upgrade your license.
Academy grads start out on ships as low ranking officers. On ATB’s they (often) start out as Able Bodied Seamen. Our company calls them “Training Mates”, but they are paid AB pay and perform AB duties.
SIU entry level walk-ins get a “C” book and find it very hard to get a job through the union.
Piney Point’s Unlicensed Apprentice Program is a year long course with no pay for most of that time.
It is very selective, it costs you money out of your pocket before you can even start, you can’t take a break from the course.
It’s much like military bootcamp, without weekend passes.
After graduating from the program you are guaranteed your first job (it will never be a really good one, they go to more senior people) and a “B” book.
Now you have the training, some experience and a brand new “B” book that is the lowest in the hall.
You don’t have to live in AK to work for AMHS if you work in SW. I sat in SIU hall for 4 months and didn’t get a job but I sure did owe dues, AMHS is union but at least you will be employed unlike SIU if you want to hawspipe it I would suggest AMHS that’s the route I took and now have my 3rd mate OC unlmt
[QUOTE=B ry;59000]Chouest is a great to work if you want to go the hawsepipe route . They have there own schools . All the classes are free . DP is the only class you have sign 2 year contract . Had alot of cadets getting the DP classes and heading to the rigs . It’s a hard route but at-least your getting paid . Chouest pays 185 + for os 300 for AB 385 + for Mates and 550 + for capt. 300 a day isn’t bad when your basically learning the job and advancing your career .[/QUOTE]
Do you think Chouest would hire someone without any seatime for a entry level job…?
To clarify about the Union ( any Union) you CAN ship out however and wherever you find a berth, regardless of how you get your training. BUT, the union will give you a higher priority to get jobs through them if you go through their school. That said, even though you do attend their school you are only marginally ahead of someone off the street to get a job.
Would a seaman be prejudiced against getting a non- union job if that person had attended a union school earlier in their career?
[QUOTE=Horatio;59381]To clarify about the Union ( any Union) you CAN ship out however and wherever you find a berth, regardless of how you get your training. BUT, the union will give you a higher priority to get jobs through them if you go through their school. That said, even though you do attend their school you are only marginally ahead of someone off the street to get a job.
Would a seaman be prejudiced against getting a non- union job if that person had attended a union school earlier in their career?[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify even further this is only for unlicensed unions.
[QUOTE=cappy208;59121]If you are coming into this industry get used to that.
Same skills, except that military has huge crews, redundantly redundant equipment, and NO regard to cost/benefit/profit concerns that the commercial mariner has. Even the Navy training and the USCG training is mostly NOT acceptable for Merchant Marine courses.
[/QUOTE]
Can you elaborate on how the Navy/USCG training mostly NOT acceptable? This is discouraging information.
[QUOTE=Hufasa;59442]Can you elaborate on how the Navy/USCG training mostly NOT acceptable? This is discouraging information.[/QUOTE]
The training from the navy or Coast Guard is not STCW-95 compliant. I am not an expert in this area, so I hope somebody else chimes in, but you would need to take BST and depending on if you are deck or engine RFPNW or RFPEW. For deck officers it is much more complicated, engineers less so.
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;59451]The training from the navy or Coast Guard is not STCW-95 compliant. I am not an expert in this area, so I hope somebody else chimes in, but you would need to take BST and depending on if you are deck or engine RFPNW or RFPEW. For deck officers it is much more complicated, engineers less so.[/QUOTE]
I thought RFPNW is something that happens while you are serving on a ship. I think you have to record the dates and times you underwent training at sea for RFPNW, and if I read the document correctly, this has to be at least 2 months if you have other sea-time. Is that correct?
[QUOTE=Mike23;59232]Do you think Chouest would hire someone without any seatime for a entry level job…?[/QUOTE]
I know for a fact that a young guy, 37 years old, just got hired on for an entry level job last month with Nicky Collins.
He is presently on his first 28 day shift.
He has a college degree.
He was a pharmaceutical sales person for the last 5 years and worked in a family business before that.
He took STCW and Fire fighting classes at LE Fletcher.
When Nicky hired him, he then took the Safe Gulf and Rigging class at the ECO training center.
So when he started out on his first shift he started as a “Rigger”.
He has high goals and will work himself up very fast.
So, yes, it is possible!
You need to sell yourself.
Best wishes to all of you pursuing your goals.
Claudette
A Chateau on the Bayou Bed & Breakfast
3158 Hwy 308
Raceland, LA
I started with Chouest without any training just was persistent in what I needed to do to get s start with Chouest . I’m 41 know so started when i 36 . I’m running as a mate at the moment hopefully next year I’ll have my master license .
RFPNW requires 180 days with each day being: "an eight-hour day under training carrying out duties associated with navigational watchkeeping functions during which the applicant is under the supervision of the officer of the watch. This time, plus the assessments (which can be done shipboard or in a simulator), will get you your RFPNW.
You can theoretically reduce the sea time required to 60 days taking an approved course that is coupled with a shipboard component. These are hard to find. My understanding is that the days you get must come after the course, and must be in some way arranged by the school. Just taking the course, and spending the next 60 days on the bridge of a random ship won’t cut it.
Anyhow. Back to your question about the lack of compatibility between Navy/USCG and the STCW training requirements.
I’m am not an expert either, but I would say the main direction of saltysailors comment is that people in the navy and uscg don’t have to be stcw compliant. They have their own, navy or uscg specific training regimens. Its possible that some of this training might be officially transferable, and it would certainly be transferable in a practical sense, but its not as if they are subject to the same rules and licensing structure as a merchant mariner.
[QUOTE=SaltySailor;59451]The training from the navy or Coast Guard is not STCW-95 compliant. I am not an expert in this area, so I hope somebody else chimes in, but you would need to take BST and depending on if you are deck or engine RFPNW or RFPEW. For deck officers it is much more complicated, engineers less so.[/QUOTE]
I’ve asked this before, from what I understand it has to do with the USN and USCG not cooperating with the NMC. They won’t submit their courses to the NMC for STCW approval.
[QUOTE=Diesel;59544]I’ve asked this before, from what I understand it has to do with the USN and USCG not cooperating with the NMC. They won’t submit their courses to the NMC for STCW approval.[/QUOTE]
Even some of the USCG training isn’t acceptable TO the NMC STCW standards! Imagine that: a government agency not working in conjunction/cooperation with its own sister agencies!
The only thing holding them (USCG) back is someone sitting down and documenting the USCG training program and submitting it. I volunteered to do this on my days off for free a couple of years ago. They told me they had someone working on it. NOTHING!
It would not have helped me but would have helped people coming after me.I would still do it if they asked me…
[QUOTE=B ry;59000]Chouest is a great to work if you want to go the hawsepipe route . They have there own schools . All the classes are free . DP is the only class you have sign 2 year contract . Had alot of cadets getting the DP classes and heading to the rigs . It’s a hard route but at-least your getting paid . Chouest pays 185 + for os 300 for AB 385 + for Mates and 550 + for capt. 300 a day isn’t bad when your basically learning the job and advancing your career .[/QUOTE]
I’m looking to put in with Chouest. Any suggestions? They have my application on file (probably among thousands). I put in for OS, although I’m licensed/certified (100 Master/200 Mate, Z-card, STCW BST), chiefly because all my deck experience has been on tall ships (schooners over 100 ft). I could get my AB Special at Sea School, but I’m hesitant because Chouest has their own AB/Lifeboatman certification (for free). Whatever you can share would be great, and thanks!
You will still have to find a school or get the checklist and have it signed of by a DE for the marlinespike seamanship section. The CG no longer tests at the REC,
