How do I get started? Academy vs. hawsepipe vs. vocational school

Professional Mariner Forum
1

I’m considering entering the maritime industry as a mariner. I’ve been sailing on boats of all sizes for a few years, and have discovered that I really love being on the water. I didn’t discover this fact until I was well into adulthood, and now I’m serious about it. If I had to do everything over again, I would have skipped college and entered the Navy or Coast Guard first. Now it’s too late for that!

I eventually would love to gain a Master’s license, as far as I can go. I know that takes years, but I’d like to know the best path for someone who already has a college degree. I’m mentioning the college degree not because I think it’s worth anything (my grades were poor at the time and it isn’t worth anything as a result) but to give a bit of background to anyone that wants to give me advice about maritime academies.

  1. Hawsepipe:
    I have no problem starting at the bottom somewhere if that is my best course, and doing whatever needs doing. I’ve searched online, for example at NOAA jobs. I’d love to work for NOAA, and I saw they required a MMD and TWIC card. Because of that, I’ve applied for the TWIC card and am about to send in my MMD application. Other places that advertise jobs, like Scripps, mention that you need the STCW to apply, even as an OS. Now if I paid for that on my own, it would cost me at least $1000. Should I do that and apply at places like NOAA, or is that a dead end for someone with little experience?

Does working as a cook or something other than in the deck department gain you sea time? The lady at the Coast Guard hotline couldn’t answer this question definitively, which surprised me.

I’d love to work on a tall ship to gain sea time. In fact, I’ve spent a total of 27 days as watchkeeping volunteer or guest crew on 3 different tall ships, but I’ve usually had to pay something. This is where I got the idea to be a merchant mariner in the first place. However, I can’t afford to pay for sea time experience anymore, and it seems unless you’re a 20 something year old skinny white guy with dreads and a snooty attitude, you don’t have a chance to work on a tall ship! If you have any advice in this department, please share. I’d work for free just to earn sea time. I just don’t want to pay any more.

  1. Unlicensed vocational school:
    I called my local SIU union, and they basically told me that you don’t have much of a chance of getting a job if you do it on your own. The guy there recommended I check out their school at Piney Point. I viewed a video they had and it looks promising. My problem with Piney Point, is that in some ways it seems to be like prison. You can’t see your family except one day per week and you can’t leave the premises, even while you’re waiting for an assignment. You’re away for 9 months. (the lady on the phone couldn’t guarantee that I’d be able to come back to the program if I had to leave for a significant emergency) If I’m wrong about this, please advise. I think in the real world, I might not take on a job at sea that doesn’t allow me to go home for 9 months even if my parents die or get extremely ill. The only way I’d do that is if I had no family or partner or if I was going to Antartica. The jobs I’ve seen online talk about 2-4 weeks at sea, which is completely within my comfort zone. Other than the 9 month away from home thing, the SIU program looks very attractive.

  2. Maritime academy:
    I’d consider a maritime academy, and that’s the only option I haven’t explored as far as I could. The downside of the maritime academy option is that it’s expensive and I think I might not get in if they base admissions on my previous GPA. The websites I’ve looked at don’t mention any test scores for transfer students or grad students. (I do well on standardized tests) Do the academies generally count previous sea time as credit? Have you ever heard of someone doing SIU and then an academy later on? Do the ships you serve on while you’re at the academy pay you enough to cover the cost at the academies?

Oh, by the way. I have never gotten seasick. Never. There have been quite a few times on a boat in rough weather where the seasoned crew turned green and I felt fine. The closest I’ve come is when I was in a hammock below reading a book in very rough weather. I started feeling queasy, and I thought: “So that’s what it’s like…” I put the book down and the feeling passed!

Sorry for the long winded post. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

2

Look up PMI workboat academy, sounds that would be a good fit for you.

One of the maritime programs has a graduate program that gets you your 3rd mates license, but I can’t remember which one.

3

[QUOTE=MariaW;58952]The lady at the Coast Guard hotline couldn’t answer this question definitively, which surprised me. [/QUOTE]

You have just had your first lesson.

Surprise at such responses will rapidly fade as you progress along the path toward a job at sea. Just remember “Bureaucracy is the art of making the possible impossible.”

4

I 2nd the Workboat Academy. Here is the web site. It’s built a very good reputation and run by some good people. Avoid SIU like the plague.
http://www.workboatacademy.com

Good Luck.

5

I think SUNY’s grad program has a license option. The question you need to ask yourself is ultimately where do you think you want to end up? With what license and on what type of boat?

6

Well I’m not sure what type of boat. I don’t know enough about the industry. It would be great to find a guide out there on different types of boats, wages, job prospects for each type, etc., but I haven’t found one. I’m interested in the deck department. I’d like to know learn a bit about all the jobs on a ship though, if I become a mariner. If someone told me I had to cook for a while to get to my goal, I wouldn’t mind that experience! I know that despite a very high aptitude for fixing things and solving problems (I was a computer technician, among other things) I would not want to be an engineer. I know this, because as part of my watchstanding rounds as a volunteer, I had to check gauges in the engine room, and I absolutely hated the engine room! The noise and vibration put me on edge (despite ear protection), and I couldn’t wait to get out of there while the engines were running. This was on a large topsail schooner while we were motoring out the St. Lawrence seaway. I can’t imagine other ships with even bigger engines would give me a more tolerable experience in that area.

Why should I avoid SIU (do you mean the school?) like the plague? Can you please be more specific? Yes, I’ve read the posts on this board about SIU and I didn’t see anything negative yet.

All of the maritime academies get you a 3rd mate unlimited license when you graduate. What’s the difference between that and what you get from the workboat school? Doesn’t the unlimited license give you more options? In other words, can’t you work on workboats with an unlimited, but not the other way around? For the sake of argument, if my ultimate goal was, say, Master’s Oceans Unlimited, what is the shortest route? (I know no route is “short” to this license)

I’m looking for the type of license or licenses that give me the most options.

7

You can analyze opinions and the pros and cons of any given segment of the industry all day long but you won’t really figure things out till you get out there and start doing it.

Unless you want to work on ATBs or sail deep sea I would look to the hawsepipe instead of an Academy.

Sent from my iPhone using gCaptain

8

SIU is a union, they pursue the paul hall school at piney point. To go to that school you have to join and work for the union. From what I hear, the school is good, the union may not be. There just isn’t much work so you spend a lotr of time sitting in the hall.

The workboat academy is two years and gets you a 1600 ton mate license. SUNY also has a 2 year program for a 1600 ton mate. You are correct that you can do more with a 3M than with a 1600 ton. With previous college you can finish an academy in three years. It is really not possible to work much while at any if these schools and you do not qualify for financial aud unless you go for the masters degree in business from SUNY which ha a 3M license option.

If you need to be able to make money then get a job as an OS on an OSV. You will have the 1080 days needed to qualify for a 3M / 1600 ton mate in three calendar years because those companies work 12 hour days on a 2 for 1 schedule. Just keep your sights set on your next rating upgrade, ie AB-OSV, AB-Special, etc and try to get transfered to the biggest boat possible. If you can afford to be picky of your company then go work for one with large OSVs and try your hardest to get on one so your 3M has no tonnage restriction.

9

I dont think your going to want deep sea if a 2 to 4 week rotation is what you want.

10

Chouest is a great to work if you want to go the hawsepipe route . They have there own schools . All the classes are free . DP is the only class you have sign 2 year contract . Had alot of cadets getting the DP classes and heading to the rigs . It’s a hard route but at-least your getting paid . Chouest pays 185 + for os 300 for AB 385 + for Mates and 550 + for capt. 300 a day isn’t bad when your basically learning the job and advancing your career .

11

Good point. Also, tall ships dont have rotations at all. You usually sign on for the whole season or at least 4+ months. Also, they dont pay well and you implied earlier that you needed to be making money.

12

If you are interested in tall ships, that is not an income idea as you have found. The people who inhabit tall ships (and I use that term loosely) are generally exactly the type you referred to. IMHO the ‘tall ships’ we have in this country are not really tall ships, but rich mans toys, used as tax deductions, manned by cultural throwback wannabes. There just aren’t enough of them to make it viable in a competitive world to make a decent living on them.

The commercial world consists of several types of work.
Basically it boils down to either Unlimited License jobs on ships and Oil Rigs and Drilling Rigs (Master, Chief Mate/Engineer, First, Second, Third Mate/Engineer, Pumpman, Tankerman(PIC), Able Bodied Seaman, Ordinary Seaman/Wiper, Stewards Department, and Housekeeping) All in order if income (approximately).
I think if you do a google search on the US Merchant Marine you will find about 400 ships that You can work on.

Or there is Limited License jobs on Oil field Supply Vessels, Coastwise Tugs, Harbor towing Tugs, Inland Tugs, River Tugs,Mini Cruise ships, Dinner Boats, Ferries, and some more I have overlooked. On these are Masters, Mates, Engineers, Barge Tankerman(PIC), Able Bodied Seaman, Ordinary Seaman. And there are literally thousands of these types of boats around the country.

Typically you need to figure out which segment of the industry you want to work in. The ships typically work 3 or 4 months at a time, with same time off. The Oil field work is about half and half even time, or 2 for 1. Meaning you either work even schedules, or you work 2 weeks, months, years ON, and the 1 week, month, year Off. The tug industry is probably 3/4s even time either 2 and 2, 3 and 3 or 4 and 4. But the other 1/4 is uneven time.

That’s the way we work in a nutshell.

Now for your part. Before you decide to plunk down hard earned money, figure out which industry YOU wan to go into. If it is the Unlimited end, then you will have to attend about 50,000 of training. So I would recommend going to an academy for that. But if you want to enter the Limited category, just keep pounding on doors, and calling. They DO hire Ordinary Seaman. See if you actually like the industry, before you pay for classes, training, and get licensed.

On a separate note. Often new hires ‘think’ they know what they are getting into in the merchant marine. Then once they get immersed into it they don’t care for it. The same goes for the actual responsibility of progressing UP the ladder, from deckhand to Captain. Some newbies always comment how they ‘could run the boat better than me’ but when they go through the trouble of getting a license they can’t stand the stress of being in charge while the other guys on the boat are sleeping! It is one thing to think you are ready to assume command, it is another entirely to actually be able to assume it successfully.

13

Sorry for my ignorance, what’s an ATB? What’s an “Offshore Vessel”? Aren’t they all offshore?

14

[QUOTE=brjones;58997]I dont think your going to want deep sea if a 2 to 4 week rotation is what you want.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t say I wanted a 2 to 4 week rotation. The job ads I’ve seen mention that time frame for being at sea. Vessels have to come in to port sometime to resupply or deliver goods, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I expect if there is a big emergency, if you get deathly ill, if someone dies, you aren’t a prisoner and can leave the vessel in port. The Piney Point school told me that if you leave there you lose all the time you spent there, and you have to stay there for 9 months through all three sessions. That’s a bigger problem to me than taking Family and Medical leave during employment.

15

[QUOTE=MariaW;59009]Sorry for my ignorance, what’s an ATB? What’s an “Offshore Vessel”? Aren’t they all offshore?[/QUOTE]

Articulated Tug Barge and Offshore support/supply Vessels. No all jobs are NOT offshore. It may seem that to a newbie, but offshore means outside the the inland waters. It doesn’t mean Off the Shore where ever you happen to be,

16

[QUOTE=KPEngineer;58994]
Unless you want to work on ATBs or sail deep sea I would look to the hawsepipe instead of an Academy.
[/QUOTE]
Why not? I know of many ATB’s that are 2 and 2, 3 and 3 and 4 and 4.

17

[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;59003]Good point. Also, tall ships dont have rotations at all. You usually sign on for the whole season or at least 4+ months. Also, they dont pay well and you implied earlier that you needed to be making money.[/QUOTE]

I can live without making money for a while, what I can’t do is pay thousands of dollars for education at an academy while not making any money. I understand the tall ship deal, but they aren’t at sea for 9 months, and they’re not going to tell you: “Sorry, you can’t visit your mom on her deathbed because you’re going to lose all the seatime you’ve accrued here”, which is basically what Piney Point told me. If you leave the tall ship for a legitimate reason they aren’t going to punish you by denying you your sea service.

18

ATB = Articulated Tug & Barge

It is Offshore Supply Vessel or OSV.

And no, not all vessels operate offshore or are even allowed to if they wanted to.

19

Well, legally you cannot be denied sea service. That is not what piney point is threatening. They are threatening to make you begin the program from the beginning.

20

[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;58996]SIU is a union, they pursue the paul hall school at piney point. To go to that school you have to join and work for the union. From what I hear, the school is good, the union may not be. There just isn’t much work so you spend a lotr of time sitting in the hall.

If you need to be able to make money then get a job as an OS on an OSV. You will have the 1080 days needed to qualify for a 3M / 1600 ton mate in three calendar years because those companies work 12 hour days on a 2 for 1 schedule. Just keep your sights set on your next rating upgrade, ie AB-OSV, AB-Special, etc and try to get transfered to the biggest boat possible. If you can afford to be picky of your company then go work for one with large OSVs and try your hardest to get on one so your 3M has no tonnage restriction.[/QUOTE]

Ok, here’s what I don’t get. If you’re in the union, do you have to only take union jobs? Can’t you do the training, and then if the Union isn’t working for you, look for other jobs instead of sitting and waiting? NCL America’s boat in Hawaii is part of the union, yet they advertise some jobs online. How does that work, do the boats have to hire through the union? If so, then how can they advertise online? I haven’t seen any deck jobs advertised through NCL America, just steward and other jobs. I looked at Military Sealift Command: also no OS jobs advertised there. Is there some secret to finding OS jobs? Does the government work with the union? I’m confused.