How do I get started? Academy vs. hawsepipe vs. vocational school

Professional Mariner Forum
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[QUOTE=Ianmmd;59065]There are two different class vessels southeast Alaska and southwest Alaska SE ships are week on week off with vacation, sick leave and two retirements with one mor that is optional. SW ships are day for day vacation and once you are a permeant employe you can come and go when you want for instance you can work 6 months on and take 6 months paid or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off paid but only on SW ships, it’s week on week off for SE ships. Sessional means that the ship have to go in to ship yard every winter because they are passenger vessels and they keep them crewed up in yards. I know many people that have hawspiped it and gotten there 3rd mate OC Unlmt by this route it is one of the better unlicensed jobs out there in my opinion and is not hard to get hired.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! What’s the name of the organization that runs the ships?

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Alaska marine hyway, call dan or Craig they are the dispatchers they are good people and will point you in the right direction. 9072286814

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Alaska marine hyway call dan or Craig they will get you started 9072286814 the hiring season is comeing up fast.

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one UA said he was not compelled to work for the union after school- but I have no info on this- and yes you can take government jobs off the rotary shipping board

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Interpreting here. Sessional - seasonal, SE - south east Alaska , yard means in between operating seasons you MAY be asked allowed to stay on for winter refit. ( it is really crappy in Alaskan waters especially in the winter) but you must be an exceptional, productive, valuable crew member usually with seniority to even be offered this opportunity. Regarding Unions ; You can ship out on your own. But it is much harder to get a berth that way.

You seem to want to go foreign. To do that you must have a TWIC, A MMC, and STCW. To get these three will cost around 2500 bucks. And takes about 4 weeks time to take the classes. NO company is even going to consider you unless you have these minimum credentials (at least to work on large vessels, or on vessels going foreign.) It would be a HUGE feather in your cap to have a basic seamanship class (formally called BST basic safety training) ( at a USCG ACCREDITED school) too. This is basically what you get in going to Piney Point for 9 months.

To clarify about the Union ( any Union) you CAN ship out however and wherever you find a berth, regardless of how you get your training. BUT, the union will give you a higher priority to get jobs through them if you go through their school. That said, even though you do attend their school you are only marginally ahead of someone off the street to get a job.

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Here is a basic breakdown of some different sectors of the maritime industry that most of us take for granted that everyone else knows about.

Offshore:

This generally includes vessels of all types that serve the oil and gas industry. This includes service vessels like crewboats that take personnel and small lots of cargo from shore to drilling rigs, platforms and construction vessels. Supply vessels (OSV)s move larger lots of supplys, liquids and personnel from shore to drilling rigs, platforms and construction vessels. Drilling rigs, both “bottom bearing”, (jack-ups are most common, but there are a few submersibles out there), or floating (semi submersible or drill ships). The “floaters” keep station either by an array of anchors, or by using a Dynamic Positioning (DP) system (a group of thrusters or propellers with thrusters to keep to a location). Many supply vessels and crewboats that serve deep water equipment are also equipped with DP. Offshore construction vessels such as Derrick Barges, Pipelay barges, Dive Support Vessels, ROV vessels, etc. are also included in the Offshore category. They are usually built to combine the services and operated by contractors. The offshore sector is very dynamic and often at the cutting edge of technology. Most work on a two to four week rotation for crews. The Offshore sector also includes Anchor Handling Tugs that move the drilling rigs and also position and otherwise handle the anchors for those floaters that use anchors to moor.

“Deep Sea” generally includes vessels that haul cargo from port to port. This is where you find container ships, bulkers, general cargo and tankers. Those vessels that haul cargo between US ports (using the US as an example here) are considered to be Coastwise. Most coastwise vessels are tankers, ATB (articulated tug/barges) and tugboats towing barges. In and ATB, the tug fits into a deep notch in the stern of the barge and pivots on an axis. The location of the axis depends on the design of the connecting system. ATBs generally run coastwise routes, but I have sailed on one that we took foreign quite often. For Deep Sea vessels on foreign routes, a voyage can be as long as two months or more. For most coastwise vessels, the crews work on a four week rotation. Most Union jobs are on deep sea vessels.

There are a few vessels that work in both the offshore and deep sea sectors, and they are generally tugboats, however I don’t believe that it is as common as it once was.

MSC vessels are generally deep sea, but their mission is dependent on what the government (US NAVY) determines. They move cargo, but for the Navy and other military missions.

Many Deep Sea and Offshore Construction vessels and now drilling rigs are often foreign flag, but that is another topic.

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Alaska Highway is a good option, but they are union as well. Not SIU but IBU. Also you have to live in Alaska and you have to live in the city that changes out. For SE that would be Ketchikan or Juneau Other wise, travel will get expensive every week, which they dont pay for

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[QUOTE=cappy208;59077]Interpreting here. Sessional - seasonal, SE - south east Alaska , yard means in between operating seasons you MAY be asked allowed to stay on for winter refit. ( it is really crappy in Alaskan waters especially in the winter) but you must be an exceptional, productive, valuable crew member usually with seniority to even be offered this opportunity. Regarding Unions ; You can ship out on your own. But it is much harder to get a berth that way.

You seem to want to go foreign. To do that you must have a TWIC, A MMC, and STCW. To get these three will cost around 2500 bucks. And takes about 4 weeks time to take the classes. NO company is even going to consider you unless you have these minimum credentials (at least to work on large vessels, or on vessels going foreign.) It would be a HUGE feather in your cap to have a basic seamanship class (formally called BST basic safety training) ( at a USCG ACCREDITED school) too. This is basically what you get in going to Piney Point for 9 months.

To clarify about the Union ( any Union) you CAN ship out however and wherever you find a berth, regardless of how you get your training. BUT, the union will give you a higher priority to get jobs through them if you go through their school. That said, even though you do attend their school you are only marginally ahead of someone off the street to get a job.[/QUOTE]

First of all, I agree that to pay for the minimum docs (Passport, TWIC, MMC) will be the same no matter what route you choose. The BST training alone is a $500 (only at a very few schools) to around $1,000 (MOST schools).

If you want to sail deep-sea Merchant Marine, SIU is just about the only game in town.

An entry-level person off the stree will still pay the $350 for the SIU physical plus have to pay at least a quarter of Union Dues. But with a C Card and no endorsements, forget it.

If you do the UA Program at Piney Point you will do 3 months in a boot camp, be fed and have a bunk. Take STCW-95 BST and Lifeboatman. Then you go to a 2nd phase ship for 90 days (I was on an oil tanker) and then go back to 3rd Phase. Then you take Govt. Vessels and Tankerman Asst. You also choose your dept, then you get to ship for at least 120 days at full pay. Go back to the school, upgrade and get your B Book.

This isn´t even a contest. I have KNOWN people are sitting on the beach with SUP, MFOW, SIU, all entry-level, and all of them, their cards roll-over.

Go to PP and do the program.

Come out as an AB, Cook or QMED FOWT.

Lifeboatman and Tanker Asst. Govt. Vessels.

B Book in the SIU.

BTW if you want to go work non-union if the GOM and see the same port everyday, go for it.

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I know MariaW didn’t seem too interested in the military, but someone else might be reading this, and maybe this can help them.

The U.S. Army has a maritime program.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/proceedings/training_education_pdfs/66%20ARMY.pdf

The advantage to going Army as opposed to USCG or Navy is that in the Army’s program, the mariner has (depending on the MOS and duties, etc, etc) the opportunity to receive USCG & STCW credentials including OS, AB, QMED, BST, RFPNW, RFPEW, Lifeboatman, Radar Observer, 200 GT Master, Apprentice Mate of Towing, and others.

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[QUOTE=trekleader;59109]I know MariaW didn’t seem too interested in the military, but someone else might be reading this, and maybe this can help them.

The U.S. Army has a maritime program.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/proceedings/training_education_pdfs/66 ARMY.pdf

The advantage to going Army as opposed to USCG or Navy is that in the Army’s program, the mariner has (depending on the MOS and duties, etc, etc) the opportunity to receive USCG & STCW credentials including OS, AB, QMED, BST, RFPNW, RFPEW, Lifeboatman, Radar Observer, 200 GT Master, Apprentice Mate of Towing, and others.[/QUOTE]

Interest has nothing to do with it. There’s an age limit and I’m past it. I think NOAA has a training program for their uniformed service, don’t they? I’m too old for that too, I didn’t even know it existed until this year. Why doesn’t the Navy and Coast Guard confer credentials? That seems counter-intuitive to me. Don’t the people on their ships have the same skills as every other mariner?

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If you are coming into this industry get used to that.

Don’t the people on their ships have the same skills as every other mariner?

Same skills, except that military has huge crews, redundantly redundant equipment, and NO regard to cost/benefit/profit concerns that the commercial mariner has. Even the Navy training and the USCG training is mostly NOT acceptable for Merchant Marine courses.

NOAA in their own groove has training for their own employees, but as a deckhand you will NEVER progress up into the wheelhouse! Closed door policy there.

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[QUOTE=cappy208;59121]If you are coming into this industry get used to that.

Same skills, except that military has huge crews, redundantly redundant equipment, and NO regard to cost/benefit/profit concerns that the commercial mariner has. Even the Navy training and the USCG training is mostly NOT acceptable for Merchant Marine courses.

NOAA in their own groove has training for their own employees, but as a deckhand you will NEVER progress up into the wheelhouse! Closed door policy there.[/QUOTE]
Really? Elsewhere on this forum I read that NOAA has a mixed officer crew.

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I am not having any luck finding the thread, But about a year ago there was a lengthy thread about working at NOAA, and how deckhands were stifled from getting promoted to officer status. It is possible to get seatime, and get a license, just not move up.

It appears to an outsider, that the NOAA officer corps has a special arrangement with the USCG that allows them DOUBLE seatime credit towards licensing, so they covet that ability and don’t share it. I have NEVER heard of any other company, organization or entity that has this exception.

Here it is… http://gcaptain.com/forum/maritime-employment/6454-thompson-chief-mate-relief-master.html

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Academy = Deep Sea and ATB’s

Hawsepipe = Workboats

Vocational School = Workboats

(IMHO: SIU Piney Point = Unemployment)

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Maria, In your original post,you stated you have been sailing on many different vessels for years. You should figure out how much sea time you have already,get it documented (a letter from the companies you worked for stating the number of days). You may already have enough to qualify for AB Special (360 days),take a class at a maritime school for AB and Lifeboatman,upgrade your MMC to AB and apply to NOAA,which you stated you would love to work for. They are advertising for AB’s right now…http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/301945000.

Just another avenue you might take.

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[QUOTE=seadog!;59152](IMHO: SIU Piney Point = Unemployment)[/QUOTE]

Kinda funny that when the Gulf of Mexico SHUTDOWN and the mighty cajun navy stacked the boats and laid everyone off, the SIU and it´s members continued with full employment. And when the AB´s and QMED´s (the one´s that actually had the right endorsements for deep-sea, not those OSV ones) went to the SIU halls, couldn´t get jobs cause they only had C cards. Nice to see the SIU protecting jobs for members that paid their dues. And that is what the union senority system is all about.

In fact, I don´t know anybody with the SIU that went to Piney Point that is outta work or in need.

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[QUOTE=sfmariner;59158]Maria, In your original post,you stated you have been sailing on many different vessels for years. You should figure out how much sea time you have already,get it documented (a letter from the companies you worked for stating the number of days). You may already have enough to qualify for AB Special (360 days),take a class at a maritime school for AB and Lifeboatman,upgrade your MMC to AB and apply to NOAA,which you stated you would love to work for. They are advertising for AB’s right now…http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/301945000.

Just another avenue you might take.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been “sailing” for many years. That means sailboats, for recreation or racing, not work. Of course I have no records of that time, and it was on many different boats with many different skippers, or club boats where I was the skipper, but never kept any records because I didn’t know about sea time or that I might want to get a license. The only time I have records of is 27 days serving as volunteer crew on tall ships. Even those letters are incomplete: on one of those trips I spent time both inland and coastal and I don’t think the days in each category are broken down in the letter. AB sail only takes 180 days but I don’t have that much time or the documentation to prove it. If I guess the time I spent on sailboats it was probably about 120-160 days, and most of those on the Great Lakes.

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[QUOTE=seadog!;59152]Academy = Deep Sea and ATB’s

Hawsepipe = Workboats

Vocational School = Workboats

(IMHO: SIU Piney Point = Unemployment)[/QUOTE]

Doesn’t Piney Point put you on deep sea vessels? Why would Piney Point hurt you? No one has managed to explain this. Can you please clarify? Can you get from workboat license to deep sea?

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Doesn’t Piney Point put you on deep sea vessels? Why would Piney Point hurt you? No one has managed to explain this. Can you please clarify? Can you get from workboat license to deep sea?

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A deckhand is transferable between ANY job: ships, sailing vessels, tugs, ferries.

When you get a license it is a different story. Some licenses don’t cover some vessels. It really depends on where you want your career to go on one of the many previously mentioned industry types.