Thats the wholesale price not what consumers are paying I’ll bet
Just like a few years ago when the crude price went negative. It was just a daily contract price that the counter party couldnt take delivery of.
Here is a graph of a massive escalation in power prices that correlates to the price of gas. [1]
Also, not sure who your utility is but in my own experience, PG&E/SDGE only got crazy expensive after they literally could not stop setting California on fire, and were subsequently sued for billions of dollars in damages. (I’m not too mad, up 130% on $PGE since that disaster) It had nothing to do with green infrastructure, if anything existing infrastructure that needed to be replaced. As does most of our infrastructure, and as they make these upgrades why wouldn’t utilities diversify with free fuel sources like wind and Solar? I’ve also read about either LCEC or FPL lowering rates as the price of petroleum was coming down, again, antidotal, but if you actually read the mail from your utility, it seems that the price of energy is related to the price of hydrocarbons to some degree.
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I was recently in Oslo and was told that there has been a sharp rise in electricity prices driven by low levels in hydroelectric dam catchments. Using renewable energy from other means and keeping water in hydro dams remains our most efficient way of storing energy.
That is right, but it was also caused by the high price of gas in Europe due to the Ukraine war, combined with low snow fall east of the water divide in the mountains and a dry spell this spring.
Now there has been heavy rain and flooding in the same area and the reservoirs are full.
What the prices will be this winter is left to be seen, but 90% government subsidies for private household kick in at a spot price of 70 øre/kWh (US$ 0,07)
In Norway electric power are imported from NW Europe and/or UK when prices are low there and hydro electric power are exported when they are not.
If there are shortage of hydro power due to dry spells, the sun don’t shine, or the wind don’t blow in NW Europe, nuclear power can be purchased from Sweden.
PS> The very high prices affected mainly Southern Norway, while Middle- and Northern Norway was less affected.
Today and tomorrow the spot price for Oslo area are below 10 øre all day and nobody complain.
In fact it has been low for the last month (Average spot price: 17.41 øre)
Source: Strømpris i dag time for time – Se oppdatert graf | Lyse
We are talking about the price for electricity, right?
Spot price is what a private consumers pay the producer for the electricity they consume.
On top of that comes charges for the supply lines + VAT.
So even when the spot price fall below zero there are some charges to be paid. (Nothing is for free)
It is a myth that “the more you use, the more you earn”.
no,
spot price is what the retailers are paying the suppliers, you dont get a daily bill at home do you?
The EU mandates thats how it works
One last question, and I ask this out of being “uninformed” on wind energy. What is done for electricity if there is a “calm spell” with not wind blowing? On my coast, which is be proposed for a wind farm, we sometimes have several days with either calm air or just a little breeze. I can check the surf report and see 1’ waves. If you know the answer, I will be glad to hear it, if all you have is snark like one poster that I hopefully muted, don’t bother. LOL
The wind parks are feeding into the larger grid that is also connected to solar, hydro and nuclear suppliers, with gas fired power station as last resort.
A well developed grid with large capacity and covering a large area, both for supply and consumption, ensure that when the wind doesn’t blow, or the sun doesn’t shine in some places, there are supply from other places and/or other sources.
In Europe the national grids are interconnected, so power can flow from where it is available to where it is in short supply at the time.
When supply exceed demand, excess power can be used to produce hydrogen production, which in turn can power means of transport (trucks, ships and in the future maybe also air planes) using e-fuels made with captured carbon as feedstock.
OK, so that last bit is somewhat into the future, but should be reality before 2050.
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As a huge green energy enthusiast would You be so kind and offer your opinion re. below.
Tell me where Mr Wright is not right or in another words is full of BS.
The Wright Report (libsyn.com)
There is a podcast available on Apple an Google podasts called The Wright Report by Bryan Dean Wright
The author is rather pessymistic about the green energy and expressed his doubts in a series of 5 podcasts. Quite interesting stuff.
08/14/2023: Dirty Green Energy: How the Promise Became a Problem
In this special episode of The Wright Report, Bryan Dean Wright dives into the controversial topic of green energy in America, focusing on the promises and actualities of Joe Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act, signed one year ago. Despite the $369B spent to replace fossil fuels with renewable energy, Wright unravels the myth that green energy is entirely green, clean, or renewable. Over a five-part series, he promises to expose the “dirty secrets” of this energy revolution, challenging conventional wisdom and sparking a critical conversation about the future of energy in America.
08/15/2023: Dirty Green Energy, Part 2: The Wind Energy Myth Exposed
08/16/2023: Dirty Green Energy Three: The Shocking Truth About Renewable Batteries
08/17/2023: Dirty Green Batteries: Manufacturing and Refining Unmasked
08/18/2023: Dirty Green Energy: The Final Chapter?
cheers.
I don’t know him, or his podcasts, but believe I have seen him on Fox News a few times
I also don’t know what expertise he has re: renewable energy?
From his LinkedIn profile he doesn’t appear to have much experience of anything, except as Podcaster and “talking head” on any and all subjects. He obviously have an opinion about most things, but I’m not sure it is all based on detailed research and/or knowledge.
He makes the most out of his two years at CIA and his now 8 years as “former CIA operations officer”.
I have to admit I haven’t listen to all the episodes, or even one complete episode of his 5 about “dirty green energy”, but what I heard from listing to a bit of the one about wind turbines and the last about electric cars. It was rehashing of the same arguments as every other denier of the need for a change to status quo. Nothing new or “interesting stuff”.
You can’t make an omelett without breaking an egg, nor can you change the way things are done without starting somewhere. I.e. steel can’t be made using renewable energy before there are enough renewable energy available. (Chicken or egg situation)
Wind can play an important part in a countries energy need.
But countries need a balanced energy market not reliant one once source.
When there is no wind and no sun where will the energy come from?
There will be many times when there is no wind and no sun. We need hydro, gas and nuclear power then.
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That is why there are cables from Norway (Hydro), France (Nuclear) and the Netherlands (Sun, Wind & Gas from all over EU).
The wonderful thing is that when the wind blow in Scotland, or the Sun don’t shine in Spain, you can export excess supply from UK.
If a dry spell in Norway, but sunny and/or windy summers in UK, or on the Continent, Norway can save water in the reservoirs by importing power through the same subsea cables:
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Hydro and wind work well together. Keeping water in a dam until the wind doesn’t blow is very efficient way of storing energy.
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Yes it does make good sense.
Even better; export the water to dry parts of the world, after it has done it’s job as a energy producer.
Solving the energy, water and food shortage problem at the same timed.
Even the Irish couldn’t have figured out a better solution, no matter how many pints of Guinness they consumed.
The price for electric power in Norway has been very reasonable in September:
Source: September hadde tidenes billigste strøm på Øst- og Vestlandet - smp.no
And when these countries don’t want to play nicely with each other, they can pull the plug on each other.
Unless there is one government…
Has there been any cases where any of the countries on the European grid has “pulled the plug” on any other in need of supply?
I know that in Norway there were a lot of talk about limiting export to UK and the Continent when power prices were high here, but IFAIK it was never actually done.
The advantage of getting cheap supply the other way when the sun shines on the continent and the wind blows in the UK sector of the North Sea was never part of the discussion on social media.
The United States of Europe?
I think a key thing people forget a about that the technology is still evolving, and renewables are still an emerging sector.
Imagine us 120 years ago, thinking automobiles were a conspiracy.
“People are driving these like mad men! The streets are for pedestirans where are they going to find somewhere to drive these? What if it rains and the roads turn to soup, how is it going to handle in the deep mud? What if you run out of gasoline and you arent near a general store? They keep spooking the horses when they backfire, this is a farce”
Sure, batteries currently rely on questionably sourced cobalt but ships used to run on coal, now we have ULSD, LNG, Amonia, and who knows what else. There are lots of interesting production and sortage solutions being researched, from low friction flywheel, to molten metal batteries, to Molten Salt reactors getting a second look with modern aproaches.. There is clearly great demand for a solution that very well may have yet to be invented, but thats what inventing and engineering is all about right? And those inventers will be very wealthy when the time comes.
As much as id like to think we’d all like to see technology advance, but when its renewable energy research vs a multi-trillion dollar Oil and Gas industry, I think we can all understand how there could be some paid misinformation being spread, and how they could simply buy and destroy any opposition without protection for the government. Just like how much anti-climate change “research” is paid for by the oil and gas industry, and then eaten up and repropigated by socalled free thinkers.
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this has also been written by non-expert in green energy, " rehashing of the same arguments as every other denier of the need for a change to status quo."
The myth of affordable green energy is over (msn.com)
Are we over-reacting?
(92) Climate change: are we overreacting? | GZERO World with Ian Bremmer - YouTube
