Offshore construction of big towers is not a “Craft” that is unfamiliar to the US offshore industry…
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I agree Schooner. but putting those erector sets and legos together is a bit more complicated than just a big tower,
Understood but the US is the tech hub for Offshore Oil and Gas. The O&G industry has built and installed well jackets many times bigger than any of the planned offshore wind pylons. The “Bulwinkle” installation that I am familiar with comes to mind. Bullwinkle was a 1,736 feet (529 m) tall, pile-supported fixed steel platform. The total weight of the platform was 77,000 tons, of which the steel jacket comprises 49,375 tones. At the time of its construction it was the third tallest freestanding structure ever built. Of the total height, 1,352 feet (412 m) are below the water. The jacket which is some 1,400 feet tall is the second tallest object to ever be moved to another position, relative to the surface of the Earth after the Troll another O&G project.
I understand that the GOM is the whipping boy for many Union Mariners and it might have been earned in the 1970s and 81980s… but its 2021…
And a wind turbine installation is more complicated to “put together” than and offshore installation?
Don’t get your pants in a bunch. Other than your opinions union/non-union, I have no ill will towards GOM mariners. We all want work for the USA mariners. It would be wise to lean on the experts for guidance in this newer technology. That is being done as we speak. Always impressed by the work done in the gulf.You have a choice to go union or not, go with your gut. Doesn’t affect me one way or the other. I’m quite comfortable in my decision to go union.
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Been there done that.
I’m not American or familiar with most of the American Unions or there history.
Originally from the UK. I watched the demise of the NUS, as far as I know it no longer exists. What’s left is just a little part of some other transport sector union.
The NUM the Steel Workers, There all gone. Maggie and the media all spouting about freedom ect .
I was a member of the MNAOA it’s gone through lots of name changes buggered if know the current rebranded name.
I was a registered British Seaman with the GCBS for a British Oil Major.
The GCBS was The Merchant Navy or British Merchant Marine. The region of the UK I’m from most people were seafarers of some kind. Fishermen or MN,
The downsizing, Flagging out got going with Maggie in the late 70s early 80s She broke Steel, She Broke The NUM, She Broke the NUS. Most of the rest to big hits
Some of the Leaders were both arrogant and stupid, Arthur thought he could bring down the Government, He failed.
My union was an association or liked to call its self an association. Member were Officers. Probably most voted for Maggie and bought her bullshit hook line and sinker.
It’s was part of the TUC which was all the big unions.
In 82 we got called upon to help get her out of the shit. My role was pretty minimal just shuttling gas oil and ATK. Down south. I was pretty much at the rear. One of our sister ships got hit but, it bounced off.
A couple of other Merchant ships weren’t so lucky.
Less than 2 years later I got my lay off notice,Most of the ships sold re flagged, re chartered back by the same oil company with cheeper crews.
Licensed guys had some options, sign on with manning agencies, out of various foc locations.
Here the rub.
If you signed FOC you got Black listed, technically it was illegal.
I got lucky I found a spot after almost a year and shipped out again on a GCBS boat as MNAOA member.
Less than a year. We got the notice the company was closing down, We were in N Orleans.
The Union reps showed up, The tune had changed and so had the song but the chorus was still the same.
If you sign the New Articles you are Black Listed.
You don’t sign, there’s no jobs you one of the last deep sea companies.
The new version of the song.
Sign on out of out our Hong Kong office. We have a new closed shop, in Hong Kong, our Dues will be deducted of your pay. The rest is gross remuneration, you get cash then figure it yourself.
This is the rate, it was a little bump in pay but a big cut in everything else.
We to them to go forth and multiply.
The director of our small company showed up. We gave him some shit to. Including the same advice.
He said I’m sorry Lads, I’ve been trying to avoid this, but our charters are ending, everyone else is who have flagged out are undercutting us. The company is going our bankers won’t back us if we don’t flag out.
This is what I can offer you, this is the best I can do. I told there no way I’m paying dues to a union which is black listing me.
Cant do anything about that it’s in the contract. But he gave me his word and shook my hand, he would never take a penny of my check. He never did. Always paid me about in sterling, instead of US.
I quite deep sea a few years later. Never worked on a UK Flaged ships, Since the day I put a stage over the stern in New Orleans to Paint Hong Kong over New Castle.
I don’t know if I’m still blacklisted or not,
I still get letters asking for my Dues.
And telling me there sorry but they f ed up the pension and it’s worth f all.
Both the original one I got kicked out off. and the private one I had to set up myself.
But what the hell. I got lots of freedom out of the deal.
You might have heard of the Oil Company. Took a while before somebody asked who owns the oil on all these ships which crashing into shit.
They got into drilling, they do lots of that. Last I heard they major player down in your gulf.
Union, I would know, probably not.
You guys are lucky, at least you’ve got the Jones act, which fortunately for you has F all to do with freedom.
Where do you think I loaded most cargoes when I worked Out of Hong Kong. Who do you think owned them.
I was in Louisiana many times. Drinking in Pat Obrien’s.
Why don’t you see American crewed ships any where else on the planet unless, They are painted Grey.
Why don’t you guys get the jobs with the worlds biggest cruise ship company?
They have the Freedom to hire cheeper foreign crew.
Today I live and work in Canada, I’ve been a member in Good standing of Canadian Unions the entire time.
Sometimes I don’t like the way it works.
So I told other members what I didn’t like, and what I though we should change.
Somebody was stupid enough to tell me to quite bitching about, and do something about it.
So I ran against him.
Unfortunately I got elected. I don’t get paid extra, I do most of it on my own time.
I was able to change some things, other things I wasn’t, trouble with democracy, is sometimes the majority don’t agree with me.
Most lisence guys don’t think they need me, until do. They think differently when someone reads there rights to them.
Sometimes, there rights should have bean read to them.
I just do my best to see there rights are respected and they get treated fair.
Hopefully you never need my help or any of my colleagues help.
I’m retiring soon and have stepped down, hopefully I will get through the next convention with out getting elected to anything.
But I’m still going to show up and bitch about what I don’t like.
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In transportation productivity likely more would be about avoiding the downside. Lots of potential for loss, downtime, accidents, injuries, cargo damage, damage to equipment, unplanned maintenance and so forth.
Could you provide a link/source that explains the concept of the union as a third party?
having the skills and experience needed for these wind construction vessels, i sure hope they stay away from the unions. Out of curiosity what does an union chief mate make a month worked ballpark
I hear this from so many Mariners, Union and non union.
The longshoremen unions are powerful. The mariner unions fight over the garbage at the bottom of the barrel.
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My pension check has never been late after almost two decades. Medical is still free for my bride until she turns 65… I am recently on medicare now, but still get eyeglasses and a prescription card from the said union… Had I not voted union, would just now be retiring and making much less pension and benefits than the projection the non-union company made for me at age 48. Thanks for the 18 years of early retirement and helping put my kids through college and providing medical. Forever grateful to the well managed union I am a part of.
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That’s it in a nutshell. Workers taking care of workers … a right-wing nightmare.
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You have done very well for yourself and I do not mean any disrespect, but do you really believe retiring at 48 with full benefits is good for the American economy? Maybe in the early 1900 when the life expectancy you was so low but today people routinely live into their 80’s? So if you start work at 18 and retire at 48 that’s 30 years of work and if you live to 78 that’s 30 years of retirement. Do you really believe that is economically sustainable for our whole population?
Like I stated above you have done a great job maximizing unions to your personal benefit, but your example explains why a pickup truck costs 50k these days in the US.
But it doesn’t explain why some urban office or shop worker would go into debt to buy one.
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There’s a transcript at that link, can you cut and paste the section that shows the concept of the union as a third party?
Wikipedia says otherwise:
A trade union (or a labor union in American English), often simply called a union , is an organization of workers…
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I pay the same taxes as you on my well earned pension and investments. I still buy houses,vehicles, groceries, Home Depot stuff, etc,etc .Believe me, I contribute to the economy. I had a vote on my future and used it to sign yes on the ballot many years ago.
. I hope your projection is correct that I live until 78, makes it that much better.
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New evidence shows that unions played a major role in reducing income inequality in the United States in the decades when organized labor was strong.
But it also demonstrates that the decline in union power since the 1960s — which may be exacerbated as a result of a recent Supreme Court decision — has contributed to the widening gap between rich and poor.
The new insights come from a working paper, “Unions and Inequality Over the Twentieth Century: New Evidence from Survey Data,” by four economists: Henry Farber, Daniel Herbst and Ilyana Kuziemko of Princeton, and Suresh Naidu of Columbia. They establish that unions have constrained income inequality far beyond their own membership ranks.
While the scholars can’t pinpoint the precise mechanism at work, they speculate that unions have indirectly increased pay at firms nervous that their own employees might organize. Unions have also lobbied for higher minimum wages and pushed to hold down executive salaries. They have also advocated for broader access to health care, countering a key channel through which income inequality can harm all of society.
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Good article, pretty much explains what we have been saying for decades. Especially on the “indirectly” part. An important part is the mention of “Strong Unions”. There are some that don’t represent the members as well as others (No matter what industry). Both unions I have been in are not in that category.
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Interesting article but the referenced paper creates new data to look at from public opinion polls? And corelating something as big as income inequality and all of the variables that could impact that (like increase in regulations stifling small business, or regulatory restrictions to accessing capital for small business as two quick examples) solely with union membership is pretty sophomoric reasoning. I guess from the NYT which is very pro union this should be expected and it will serve the presidents mission of reviving the antiquated union model, but it is pretty far from objective.
Just curious Schooner , have you ever been in well managed union?
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