[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161939]A lot of guys have been doing real good down here for a long time as well.[/QUOTE]
True, you’re running some sophisticated equipment down there, I think GOM mariners deserve every penny. But the O&G sector is far more profitable then deep-sea. The pay should be high.
[QUOTE=Rich Bogad;161937]People can have very valid reasons for not wanting a union. In many cases they might know people who lost their jobs due to the intransigence of a union, usually work rules rather than salary. The people who used to work for Hostess come to mind. That’s just one example.
Except for public employee unions, unions don’t have a good record of preserving jobs.[/QUOTE]
You name any type of organization and you can find people that hate it. The church, the Boy Scouts, environmental groups, corporations, banks.
Lots of hating on unions. The right hate unions because they give workers more influence. the left hates unions because they prefer government solutions to workers organizing to look out for their own interests. The communist hated unions because they short-circuited the revolution. Non-union workers hate unions because they see it as someone getting something they don’t deserve, working schulbs getting good pay and benifits.
I see it as someone getting something they don’t deserve. Guido Union lining his pockets with the members money because he’s convinced everyone they need him to be their mouthpiece.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161931]How can he raid the 401k if it was paid into my account every pay period?[/QUOTE]
Yours is, but obviously other people aren’t so fortunate. Haven’t we gone down this road before that I’m not singling out HOS? I’m talking about Jeaux’s match, by the way.
On the topic of executive compensation, I think it’s worth pointing out that salaries for union officers, even the highest of the high, are fairly modest. It’s pretty rare for them to be higher than the low six-figures, which is hardly extravagant for administrators and managers in a large organization. Those who choose to work in a union shop shouldn’t be upset that the people we hire to represent us are compensated as well as any manager at a Fortune 500 company. The benefits of a union come with the responsibility to pay for the infrastructure and operation of that union, and fair compensation for our officials is part of that bargain.
[QUOTE=Mate_Zac;161632]Someone went to wikipedia! And there is 25 states NC being one of them and for a lot of things it’s good because you don’t have unions sucking employers dry and employees through fits about not getting paid crazy amounts of cash for a jobs that don’t really deserve that said pay. I believe if you work hard you should be paid well and if you don’t like how you are paid well it’s also a right to quit state. You can also go work somewhere better[/QUOTE]
It’s about far, far more than “crazy amounts of cash” and you better read up on the history of unions and the labor movement before you toss out another stink bomb like this one again.
I know my history on labor unions and why they came into existence and such
[QUOTE=Mate_Zac;161947]I know my history on labor unions and why they came into existence and such[/QUOTE]
Well you don’t seem to have a clue about what they can do for people, do you?
It’s not just about money. There are issues of safety, training, hiring and firing, promotions, transfers, retirement, terminations, disciplinary action, you name it. In addition, the maritime union contracts address things such as food, bedding, hours worked, transportation to and from the ship, whether you have to share a room or get your own room, and much more unique to the industry. Then there’s penalty pay, dirty work pay, overtime, holiday pay, sick and regular leave (time off), if you want to get into the whole “crazy amounts of cash” thing.
To address these issues, a contract is created. A union contract is a negotiated agreement between employer and employee which includes recourse for grievances, aside from merely quitting and moving on (which every state allows one to do regardless).
Without that agreement, an employer is free to change the terms of employment pretty much at will…they can cut pay, increase hours, eliminate benefits, reduce or eliminate training and you as the employee can either suck it up or as you say, leave. But that avenue is often enough not an option. Employees should certainly have the right to organize for their own protection and betterment.
Our friend Mate_Zac is an idealistic 17 year old… Someone has told him (probably his parents) that if you work hard, you will be taken care of. While this does happen, there are times that it doesn’t. In a perfect world, every hard worker would be paid well. Unfortunately, there are people in the world who may take advantage of that worker. While it is always beneficial to be a good worker, it doesn’t necessarily mean that your Joe Boss will look out for you. Joe is quite often looking out for his own interests which don’t always coincide with the hard workers interests. There are plenty of hard workers that work for Joe for 20 or 30 years and get crapped on because they don’t know there is a big world outside.
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161950]There are plenty of union people being scammed and choose not to believe it as well.
[/QUOTE]
Do you have a link?
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161950]There are plenty of union people being scammed and choose not to believe it as well.[/QUOTE]
I get what you’re doing and I love it. Whoever you are, you have truly mastered your craft. I feel privileged to watch such a talented winder-up.
I’ve posted this before but during the dive of the mid '80s, I decided to check out the SIU. I’d heard all the horror stories my first 15 years about if we organized, we might lose our jobs to members with more seniority. We’d lose our “special” relationship with management ect. I walked into the hall in Houston and was surprised there were no child sacrifices being carried out. I walked out with a job on tugs paying 50% more than I was making in the oilfield. Not counting OT and vacation pay. There was a manning scale and if we sailed short handed ( as we were most of the time in the oilfield), there was “missing man pay”. With the exceptions of foreign runs, we worked 28/28, paid transportation, top tier insurance paid by the company, 2 for 1 pension contributions with a wage related pension. We negotiated contracts every 3 years. Some were good, some marginal but we never went backwards but lost cooks for 1 contract. There was no lose of the “special” relationship with management.
Now the SIU is no panacea but the 24 years I sailed with them worked out very well. My wages the last few years I sailed didn’t keep up with the oilfield but that’ll probably level out. The “early normal” pension makes up for a lot.
Seems to me that , based on what you and a few others have reported , being part of A union was a good thing… 35 years ago …
Not so much now ?
Most of the items Catherder listed are being provided by GOM companies , with no middle man. No union dues. AND if your employer is not providing those things for you…you are free to Go find another job. Or better yet, start your own company , and provide your employees with whatever benefits you can afford to provide.
I sure Jeaux Boss will tell you, owning and operating a business is EASY PEASY ! Anyone can do it !..
I walked away from the union in November of 95 and ended up at Turdwater. My last ship as a FWT I made $60 base and only occasionally would there be overtime. The ship before that was $65 as a UJE. As soon as we left Bayonne headed to Somalia it was announced there would be no overtime for the entire voyage. The captains name was Bob Fay we called him Captain Bob no pay Fay behind his back. Turdwater hired me as an oiler for $90 a day and there was better insurance, 401k, etc. So I got a a big raise going non union imagine that. The most important thing I found down here was a steady schedule with either 28/14 or 14/14. It was feast or famine with the union and of course the jobs were for sale. I thought this place was the best kept secret in the business and it was for the most part until this last boom.
[QUOTE=St@nley68;161958]Seems to me that , based on what you and a few others have reported , being part of A union was a good thing… 35 years ago …
Not so much now ?
Most of the items Catherder listed are being provided by GOM companies , with no middle man. No union dues. AND if your employer is not providing those things for you…you are free to Go find another job. Or better yet, start your own company , and provide your employees with whatever benefits you can afford to provide.
I sure Jeaux Boss will tell you, owning and operating a business is EASY PEASY ! Anyone can do it !..[/QUOTE]
I’m well aware what it takes to run a company and WELL aware of being free to find another job with the many different companies I worked for my first 15 years. The middle man, one of the many misconceptions, only applies if you’re shipping off the board doing relief jobs. The 2 SIU contracted companies I worked for worked equal time generally with permanent employees. We negotiated every 3 years with our track record and bottom line. Dues, I think are $600 a year now. I’m curious, how much does the employee pay for insurance with the average OSV company now?
I’m under no illusion that the oilfield will go union in the Gulf. The day rates between oilfield equipment (for now) and the shipping/tug-barge are vast. I just hope there is no melee like there was in the '80s.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161964]I walked away from the union in November of 95 and ended up at Turdwater. My last ship as a FWT I made $60 base and only occasionally would there be overtime. The ship before that was $65 as a UJE. As soon as we left Bayonne headed to Somalia it was announced there would be no overtime for the entire voyage. The captains name was Bob Fay we called him Captain Bob no pay Fay behind his back. Turdwater hired me as an oiler for $90 a day and there was better insurance, 401k, etc. So I got a a big raise going non union imagine that. The most important thing I found down here was a steady schedule with either 28/14 or 14/14. It was feast or famine with the union and of course the jobs were for sale. I thought this place was the best kept secret in the business and it was for the most part until this last boom.[/QUOTE]
The differences in our experiences with the SIU were I sailed Inland division which covered seagoing tugs and ATBs. In '86, the OS made around $90 a day plus OT and vacation pay.
The company I am with is paying about 85%. I am coming out of pocket $150/ mo. Medical,dental,vision,script.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161964]I walked away from the union in November of 95 and ended up at Turdwater. My last ship as a FWT I made $60 base and only occasionally would there be overtime. The ship before that was $65 as a UJE. As soon as we left Bayonne headed to Somalia it was announced there would be no overtime for the entire voyage. The captains name was Bob Fay we called him Captain Bob no pay Fay behind his back. Turdwater hired me as an oiler for $90 a day and there was better insurance, 401k, etc. So I got a a big raise going non union imagine that. The most important thing I found down here was a steady schedule with either 28/14 or 14/14. It was feast or famine with the union and of course the jobs were for sale. I thought this place was the best kept secret in the business and it was for the most part until this last boom.[/QUOTE]
I sailed for a short trip with the same captain. I was an emergency relief 2/M and picked up the ship in Turkey. Nobody told me they had taken on water there. For the entire two weeks I had the screaming shits. The SL-7s with Bay Tankers were the lowest paying jobs in AMO at the time. About a week after I got off the Bay Tankers personnel guy called me and said “I know we don’t pay shit but we really would like you to work for us”. It was the most honesty that I have ever heard out of a personnel department. I still didn’t take the job.
[QUOTE=injunear;161965] I’m curious, how much does the employee pay for insurance with the average OSV company now? [/QUOTE]
Nobody will be able to answer that because the differences in insurance costs are vast. Rates are subject to control by states, so an employee working in one state could cost the company more than in other states.
Of course, there a wild fluctuations in what policies cover. That has a huge effect on costs.
Another factor is company size. The more employees a company has, the more negotiating ability they have with insurance companies.
