[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161803]So now we’ve come full circle to all of us down here being stupid?[/QUOTE]
I took it the other way, that it wouldn’t work.
Ya couyon whatchu need all dat fancy book larnin for just to mash dem buttons!
Always comes back to the same tired argument.
But it’s Jeaux Bawss that makes the argument that the workers are easily fooled.
T.Y is just pointing out the assumptions Jeaux is making in his post.
Trader Yankee makes no assumptions here, the reader does.
I still do not understand why non OSV Mariners are agitating for union in an area they do not work. My competitors and I employ Mariners from all over the country and many foreign nationals none of them feel the need to organize. I believe if they had this intent they would have by now. I also do not believe education or lack thereof is the reason why. These unions have large offices and employ many people to keep their operation going. If all they are there to do is manage a health and retirement plan and negotiate contracts why do they need so many people? I have seen many large companies with 10,000+ employs manage health and retirement plans with less than two dozen people. Many of these unions have a dozen board members alone and each has a secretary and on and on. This seems ridiculously inefficient in terms of what they do for the mariner and everything his money is buying. If as you say there are rarely any problems and contracts can span years what are all of these people doing in the interim?
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161914]I still do not understand why non OSV Mariners are agitating for union in an area they do not work. My competitors and I employ Mariners from all over the country and many foreign nationals none of them feel the need to organize. I believe if they had this intent they would have by now. I also do not believe education or lack thereof is the reason why. These unions have large offices and employ many people to keep their operation going. If all they are there to do is manage a health and retirement plan and negotiate contracts why do they need so many people? I have seen many large companies with 10,000+ employs manage health and retirement plans with less than two dozen people. Many of these unions have a dozen board members alone and each has a secretary and on and on. This seems ridiculously inefficient in terms of what they do for the mariner and everything his money is buying. If as you say there are rarely any problems and contracts can span years what are all of these people doing in the interim?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t waste my time agitating for a union in the GOM. The owners will never allow a union and as long as they can “fire at will” they will have the upper hand. This is a professional mariners forum. Unions are being discussed. I am participating in the disscussion.
I suppose you know your workers don’t want a union because that’s what they told you when you asked. Obviously they know which side of their bread is buttered.
In 1985 I was working for a non-union tug company for $70 a day and no benefits. I quit and next day went to work at a union tug company for $180 a day with full benefits. I didn’t think to ask about the size of the staff.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;161916]In 1985 I was working for a non-union tug company for $70 a day and no benefits. I quit and next day went to work at a union tug company for $180 a day with full benefits. I didn’t think to ask about the size of the staff.[/QUOTE]
Strange how that works. Sometimes just their presence causes change. In '71 or so, we delivered a boat to Port Hueneme. I was to stay on for a month or so. The IBU came snooping around and suddenly I got a $10 a day raise. In '77 in Seward Ak, the Teamsters passed out pledge cards and we got a big raise. Around '80 the SIU tried to organize us in Davisville RI and we got a raise and better sched.
From '70 to '85, I worked mostly in the oilfield. Companies came and went as did pensions and benefits. Just from the cycles I’ve seen in the past, this one might be deep but I don’t think it will be as “cut-throat” as the '80s. But then again, it’s still early.
Lots of large buildings full of people drawing a paycheck it appears someone is making money off the "pension fund". [img]https://instagram.com/p/2gv2wnw17c/[/img] [img]https://instagram.com/p/2gvPunw15a/[/img] [img]https://instagram.com/p/2gvKviw15I/[/img] [img]https://instagram.com/p/2gvG3qw141/[/img] [img]https://instagram.com/p/2gu4hNw14N/[/img]
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161920]Lots of large buildings full of people drawing a paycheck it appears someone is making money off the “pension fund”. ][/QUOTE]
Me for one. And I’ve been drawing it since I was 56. It’s nice to retire young enough to enjoy it.
Yes but think of how much your pay out would be if you didn’t have to share it to pay for all that unnecessary extravagance.
He probably wouldn’t have a pension if that was the case.
Are you against cop and FF unions too?
Jeux would rather be able to raid the 401k contributions when he needs to than contribute to a pension.
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161925]Yes but think of how much your pay out would be if you didn’t have to share it to pay for all that unnecessary extravagance.[/QUOTE]
Well let’s see…I paid $600 initiation fee and $300 a year dues most of that time. I think it’s up to $600 now. (tax deductible) My insurance and double pension contributions were paid by the company as were the school and transportation contributions. I had free complete annual physicals (as I still get in retirement).
I invested my vacation pay and most of my overtime and did quite well. I just got the SIU pension fund statement and it is funded at 135%.
Most of the guys I sailed with that worked until they were 62 or 65 were dead within 2 years. I’ve enjoyed the last 6 years hunting and fishing.
Want to Be Happy? Join a Union
But a recent study may give some workers reason to reconsider. For those who belong to a union, membership seems to bring a benefit that perhaps surpasses better wages or generous health insurance: higher life satisfaction.
The study authors, Patrick Flavin, an assistant professor at Baylor University, and Gregory Shufeldt, an assistant professor at the University of Arkansas, Little Rock, used data from five different years between the early 1980s and mid-2000s, conducted in the United States, of the World Values Survey, a research project focusing on people’s beliefs. As they write in the report, they found that “union members are more satisfied with their lives than those who are not members and that the substantive effect of union membership on life satisfaction is large and rivals other common predictors of quality of life.”
In their study, they tease out four “pathways” by which being a union member might improve quality of life compared with not being a member: “These include having greater satisfaction with one’s experiences while working, feeling greater job security, being afforded numerous opportunities for social interaction and integration, and enhancing the participatory benefits associated with more engaged democratic citizenship.”
How can he raid the 401k if it was paid into my account every pay period?
[QUOTE=Jeaux Bawss;161925]Yes but think of how much your pay out would be if you didn’t have to share it to pay for all that unnecessary extravagance.[/QUOTE]
I think that company bean counters underestimate the knowledge, the know-how and the judgement of working mariners. That’s why it’s good to have a union to give working mariners a stronger voice. This failure to appreciate the common sense of working mariners also explains why the anti-union arguments are so dumb.
Number one not all of these anti-comments are dumb some of them make you think a little. Jeaux does have a point though where does the money come from to have all of these large buildings? If they are making enough extra money to afford all of this why isn’t it staying in the pot? That money could go to having even better health benefits or more and larger scholarships for member dependents. Then of course more in the pot men’s bigger pay outs to retirees or if lump sum is an option even bigger buy outs. Instead your money went to pay for all of these large bureaucracies in giant stone edifices. You guys keep talking about the man fucking me out of money it seems you guys aren’t concerned with how yours is spent either. You seem just fine getting what you imagine to be a good deal when apparently there are millions a year of your money not getting redistributed amongst the members. They want Joe to pay the pension money to them so they can hold it and make the interest and pay themselves. Instead of a union pension why don’t you have your money with your employer match paid directly to an account you control. Then you get to keep all your money.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;161935] This failure to appreciate the common sense of working mariners also explains why the anti-union arguments are so dumb.[/QUOTE]
People can have very valid reasons for not wanting a union. In many cases they might know people who lost their jobs due to the intransigence of a union, usually work rules rather than salary. The people who used to work for Hostess come to mind. That’s just one example.
Except for public employee unions, unions don’t have a good record of preserving jobs.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;161936]Number one not all of these anti-comments are dumb some of them make you think a little. Jeaux does have a point though where does the money come from to have all of these large buildings? If they are making enough extra money to afford all of this why isn’t it staying in the pot? That money could go to having even better health benefits or bigger and larger scholarships for member dependents. Then of course more in the pot men’s bigger pay outs to retirees or if lump sum is an option even bigger buy outs. Instead your money went to pay for all of these large bureaucracies in giant stone edifices. You guys keep talking about the man fucking me out of money it seems you guys aren’t concerned with how yours is spent either. You seem just fine getting what you imagine to be a good deal when apparently there are millions a year of your money not getting redistributed amongst the members. They want Joe to pay the pension money to them so they can hold it and make the interest and pay themselves. Instead of a union pension why don’t you have your money with your employer match paid directly to an account you control. Then you get to keep all your money.[/QUOTE]
Not all arguments are dumb. I don’t mind working non-union if the company is small.
Many time I’ve seen an AB calculate in his head the extra pay he is going to make when the ship get delayed (extra day, two more hours OT, subtract FICA etc) And that’s the dumbest AB on board.
Many mariners have a very sharp pencil when it come to money. The pensions and benefits gets a great deal of scrutiny. “What about all that unnecessary extravagance” is not a smart argument when my pay more then doubled when I went union.
There is a 401k in addition to a pension, no matching however. Plus a lot of mariners have done ok for a long time.
A lot of guys have been doing real good down here for a long time as well.