Enrolled in SIU's UA school: advice?

Professional Mariner Forum
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I’m in my early 20s lifelong resident of Maryland and hoping to make unionized seafaring a permanent career.

Too bad I have no idea what the pay is actually like. I asked the Baltimore Port Agent if I could look over SIUs collective bargaining agreements and was told no, I should save those questions for the Harry Lundeberg school.

I found a list of salaries for the Military Sealift Command.
https://sealiftcommand.com/payscales/
Are these comparable to union workers compensation?

I was also told by the Port Agent union seafarers typically take jobs in just one department. When I asked which department has the most work available right now she suggested the Steward department. I know that steward positions never require licensed seafarers and there’s not really a hawsepipe path of advancement open to them, right? I’m not sure what the best department would be 20 or 30 years down the line.

Id be really thankful for any advice, it’s a big choice to make without knowing much.

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[QUOTE=Evergreenmonster;186569]Id be really thankful for any advice, it’s a big choice to make without knowing much.[/QUOTE]

I already had an AB ticket when I signed on with SIU so I can’t comment on specifics of the sponsored training but I think you could do a lot worse than the path you’ve chosen. They pay for your training and give you the time and opportunity to decide on which specific area you want to specialize in. MSC can be a great option (government benefits, job security and more sponsored training), especially if you are single as the hitches are nominally 4 months. Some guys do back to back hitches eliminating the need to pay for shore accommodations filling up the bank account while piling up the sea time. There’s no way to predict what the best department would be 20 or 30 years down the line except the one you are most comfortable with. You could have worked your way up to master by then. Welcome to the industry and best of luck to you.

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Don’t just go by the pay scales…those are base wages (at MSC) and you can potentially make much more money depending on what ship and part of the world you find yourself in.

I work for another gov agency, and we too are union represented. I work an intermittent schedule that allows me enough money and time off to pursue other interests in my spare time. It helps to have a spouse that works, but YMMV (Your mileage may vary)

Shipping is a little slow right now. Therefore, you may not get exactly what you want job-wise at the moment. You can apply to the SIU school or try government service and see where your interests lie. It’s not the military- if you want to change hats later down the line, it’s not impossible.

Use the search function here on the board. Old threads are a wealth of info.

4

You can always start in the Steward’s Dept then move to deck or engine room.

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[QUOTE=Evergreenmonster;186569]I’m in my early 20s lifelong resident of Maryland and hoping to make unionized seafaring a permanent career.

Too bad I have no idea what the pay is actually like. I asked the Baltimore Port Agent if I could look over SIUs collective bargaining agreements and was told no, I should save those questions for the Harry Lundeberg school.

I found a list of salaries for the Military Sealift Command.
https://sealiftcommand.com/payscales/
Are these comparable to union workers compensation?

I was also told by the Port Agent union seafarers typically take jobs in just one department. When I asked which department has the most work available right now she suggested the Steward department. I know that steward positions never require licensed seafarers and there’s not really a hawsepipe path of advancement open to them, right? I’m not sure what the best department would be 20 or 30 years down the line.

Id be really thankful for any advice, it’s a big choice to make without knowing much.[/QUOTE]

I’m a graduate of the program from 2012, and here’s what I found.

Pay varies from contract to contract. Generally speaking Tankers usually have the best paying contracts while say a Ro/Ro is usually on the lower end, the MSC pay scale for entry level was pretty even with the Ro/Ro I was on, but the AB was making less, as I said it varies from ship to ship so how much you make can and will depend on your department and how much OT you work as well. Most ships I’ve worked on the AB and Oiler got the same pay and OT rate while the higher level QMEDS and the Bosun of course received more.

And yes, the graduate program eventually wants you to choose one department, when I was there phase I was 3 months at school, then phase II was 3 months at sea where you work a month in each department to give you a feel for what you like best, you go back for Phase III fot two months to choose your department and get government vessel,and tanker man assist. Then they give you your first actual entry level job. You then go back for a month to upgrade to AB,Oiler or steward and what not. The school and even union don’t really like if you cross deck departments for some reason.

I personally went Engineering because I feel it gives me the experience to quit sailing if I want and find a job else where,

As for what department sees the most jobs? I couldn’t tell you I’ve been out of deep sea and with a harbor tug company for two years now, I know when I used to do the hall AB jobs and Steward jobs were a dime a dozen compared to finding Oiler jobs.

6

Hello
I started out just the way you are. I was in Piny point class 493. I stared out in the deck dept and have never left. The wages starting out with the siu is not going to be great. Once you get to know what ships to look for you will make more money. Dont look to get rich in the SIU. Get your License if you want to make money. The SIU and AMO have a program TECH I think. You start out as a wiper and 4 years later you got you 3rd engineer License. If I was starting out again that is what I would do. Ask the Balt port agent about that.
When I started out as a OS in the 90’s I worked on a lot of ships for less than min wage. Just letting you know. SIU has a lot of sweetheart contracts

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[QUOTE=hawspipehillbilly;186629]
When I started out as a OS in the 90’s I worked on a lot of ships for less than min wage. Just letting you know. SIU has a lot of sweetheart contracts[/QUOTE]

Cue DynCorp

8

Cue American Hawaiian Cruises and Bay Ship Management…

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;186657]Cue American Hawaiian Cruises and Bay Ship Management…[/QUOTE]

Almost had my wife convinced to sign on as an OS on American Hawaiian so we could sail together around the islands but NOOO…little princess had to have a private soaking tub.
PS I did what I had to. I bought her a house.

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[QUOTE=Bayrunner;186605]You can always start in the Steward’s Dept then move to deck or engine room.[/QUOTE]

SIU does not like changing of depts and discourages you from doing so. Have/had a Puerto Rican class mate who changed from Eng due to his lack of English skills, got some wrong advice and went Steward. Met him recently and from what he said, to change from Steward to Engine, he’d have to give the school/SIU a medically unfit certificate, so that he can get out of Steward.

Which raised a conundrum for him. If he states that he is medically unfit for Ste, how’d he be medically fit for either Deck or Eng? No reply from the school/SIU and he’s stuck in the Ste dept.

He’s still trying though and will update this post when I meet him next.

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[QUOTE=Reduxalicious;186613]I’m a graduate of the program from 2012, and here’s what I found.

…

And yes, the graduate program eventually wants you to choose one department, when I was there phase I was 3 months at school, then phase II was 3 months at sea where you work a month in each department to give you a feel for what you like best, you go back for Phase III fot two months to choose your department and get government vessel,and tanker man assist. Then they give you your first actual entry level job. You then go back for a month to upgrade to AB,Oiler or steward and what not. The school and even union don’t really like if you cross deck departments for some reason.

…[/QUOTE]

Phase 1 has now been extended by 14 days. PP has got a ship (ex-NASA rocket recovery and on loan from MARAD) on which a student has to do 14 additional days, before being shipped out for Phase 2.

Phase 3 is 7 weeks, which apart from govt vessels and tanker assist + LNG, includes Rules of Road + Aids to Navigation, thereby enabling you to get your RFPNW. It’s also in this Phase that Piney Point will try to get you your secret govt clearance + small arms training, so that you can work on MSC ships.

You leave Phase 3 as STOS, come back for Phase 5 and graduate as an AB.

To the OP, hope that this info helps.

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[QUOTE=smoker;186669]PP has got a ship (ex-NASA rocket recovery and on loan from MARAD) on which a student has to do 14 additional days, before being shipped out for Phase 2.[/QUOTE]
Is that all these are being used for now that they don’t have any rocket boosters to tow? Is United Space Alliance still under contract to the goobment?

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[QUOTE=smoker;186669]Phase 1 has now been extended by 14 days. PP has got a ship (ex-NASA rocket recovery and on loan from MARAD) on which a student has to do 14 additional days, before being shipped out for Phase 2.

Phase 3 is 7 weeks, which apart from govt vessels and tanker assist + LNG, includes Rules of Road + Aids to Navigation, thereby enabling you to get your RFPNW. It’s also in this Phase that Piney Point will try to get you your secret govt clearance + small arms training, so that you can work on MSC ships.

You leave Phase 3 as STOS, come back for Phase 5 and graduate as an AB.

To the OP, hope that this info helps.[/QUOTE]

Huh, interesting good to know they got a new training vessel finally

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There were two of those rocket booster recovery ships. One is the new Kings Pointer (ex Liberty Star) and this must be where the other one (Freedom Star) ended up.

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[QUOTE=Lee Shore;186670]Is that all these are being used for now that they don’t have any rocket boosters to tow?[/QUOTE]

LOL. Wouldn’t know. Having said that, the ship does not sail and the student spends his day on the ship, doing a mini sea project, chipping and painting. From what I heard, the Steward class were supposed to cook on that ship to get a feeling of how cooking is on a ship, but I saw trolleys of cooked food leaving the hotel and being wheeled to the ship.

Oh yeah, the ship did sail for a few days to take part in Maritime Day. But basically, just sits on the pier, settling deeper into the muddy bottom, with bird alarms to keep the Sea Gulls and the Canadian Geese away going on.

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[QUOTE=smoker;186674]LOL. Wouldn’t know. Having said that, the ship does not sail and the student spends his day on the ship, doing a mini sea project, chipping and painting. From what I heard, the Steward class were supposed to cook on that ship to get a feeling of how cooking is on a ship, but I saw trolleys of cooked food leaving the hotel and being wheeled to the ship.

Oh yeah, the ship did sail for a few days to take part in Maritime Day. But basically, just sits on the pier, settling deeper into the muddy bottom, with bird alarms to keep the Sea Gulls and the Canadian Geese away going on.[/QUOTE]

Why am I not surprised.

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;186673]There were two of those rocket booster recovery ships. One is the new Kings Pointer (ex Liberty Star) and this must be where the other one (Freedom Star) ended up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Liberty_Star[/QUOTE]

Yup. It’s the Freedom Star.

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[QUOTE=Fraqrat;186657]Cue American Hawaiian Cruises and Bay Ship Management…[/QUOTE]

By American Hawaii, do you mean Norwegian Cruise Lines? They are the lowest paying ship in SIU and a good place for a C-card to start out to get sea time. Pride of America usually goes All Ports. Another is Liberty Maritime, NY. I’ve heard horror stories about food running out in the middle of a voyage.

Also, if you go on FB and look on Siu Beef, you’ll read some more horror stories about Ocean Glory and a Crowley ship with photos.

19

Thanks for all the replies. I’m not too worried about low starting pay, I’m single and debt free and plan on staying that way.

Reading over the STCW and National ratings on the coast guard website was a bit confusing. If I want to work the deck department on tankers what should my goals be? Will I need to relocate to get those jobs? I’m not sure what sort of work is normally
in Maryland.

Does SIU facilitate hawsepipe advancement in anyway, or am I going to have to take the initiative in my career path? I don’t know what to expect when it comes to paying for training.

20

No I meant American Hawaii, I did my wiper time on the Independence straight outta PP back in 91-92. After upgrading worked the SL-7’s as UJE with Bay Ship for peanuts. I was never able to sail on anything with the highly coveted standard Tanker or Freighter contract. If I had who knows I may have stayed with the union.