I mean yeah, if I was still standing 4/8’s and I couldn’t have a beer after work I’d stop going back. Europeans or I’m not going at this point.
2 Likes
Honestly though— MMP set me up well and I always did well here but.. leadership has no teeth or brains. It’s a paper tiger and they did it to themselves. That they admit this in private kinda says a lot about who runs the circus these days.
Even after the DOD announcement they still denied it was happening. Members heard most of this information from MEBA officials who reached across the gap to talk with them about it.
1 Like
Because AMO always partners with SIU as they’re the same Union.
Then, no one is going to AMO for expertise they would opt for AMO for the tank top contract.
If that’s what they want, they would go with SIU over MFOW/SUP
Is this real? And are applicants actually getting jobs on box ships that easy? I thought the unions had too many people waiting for jobs
MEBA isn’t connected to MMP so not necessarily. And I can’t image AMO would be able to fill all the new engineering jobs on their own. There are a ton of engineer openings on their online open board. I believe the passthrough that AMO and MEBA have is only one trip passthrough, so it wouldn’t work really for APL because you’d need permanent engineers especially CE and 1AE.
If APL is truly going to bring in all those ships and ditch MMP, it would have to be AMO deck and MEBA engine. MEBA is the only union with that could come close to filling all those engine jobs.
2 Likes
These days you’re seeing a lot more low books and applicants landing them than when I started out.
There’s a lot of jobs on the board right now. It’s been a while since I had a hard time getting work.
1 Like
So if this (APL deck jobs go to AMO) really happens, it will be very interesting to see if the AMO uses this opportunity to start to get their wage scales up to 1st world standards or if they sign a contract significantly lower than what MMP had.
This is 9 new ships in 2025? I haven’t heard of this, can you elaborate or give a link?
Buddy when’s the last time you saw an AMO contract? Half our ships are on the same MARAD/MSC tripartite agreements as MEBA and MM&P. Do we have a couple shit contracts? Yeah, so do the other two unions (see SLNC and Liberty)
You won’t find one. It’s been pretty hush hush. Think it has to do with the SHIPS act and the focus on increasing tonnage for MSP.
Buddy, we’re talking box boats here. Even mentioning the likes of Patriot or SLNC in this conversation is laughable.
But hey, maybe you’re right… Maybe AMOs top line contacts (Tote?) compare favorably. You have the Tote numbers to share?
1 Like
You mentioned AMO as a whole, so why wouldn’t you count MMP/MEBA as a whole? Those contracts don’t count because they’re dog shit?
If you’re not sure of wages maybe don’t speak to them? There’s a whole thread titled “2025 Wages” or something of the like. Go look.
I mentioned your shitbox union as a whole because, as a whole, your wages are shit.
I am sure of your shit wages which I why I asked you to post your best contact so you could prove my point. Wisely, you declined.
I just hope your leadership isn’t as passionate about defending your existing shit wage scales as you are and use this opportunity with APL to improve them.
So then post some comparisons? I don’t see you providing any numbers here and you’re the one who started the comparisons? I don’t have the tote numbers handy, haven’t worked there in a couple years and they’ve renegotiated.
At least our leadership is passionate about something, yours seems passionate to let the union die.
For the record, I’m not defending shit wages. I’m defending the idea that we don’t have “first world wages” like you said. I do just fine compared to your poor shipmates sailing those SLNC and Liberty contracts.
I happy to hear that. I want you and all AMO members to not just ‘do fine’ but to thrive. Why do I care? Because upward pressure on wages benefits all of us.
I would hope you (and your leadership when dealing with APL) don’t strive to compare yourselves with MEBAs bottom of the barrel contracts. AMOs minimum acceptable goal should be to exceed your highest existing boxboat contract and preferably no reduction of existing (MMP) wages/benefits.
Then maybe you could change your condescending attitude to represent that sentiment. Comments like the ones you made are what make union members actively work against each other instead of collaborating for better wages across all the boards.
Yeah, it is the goal. Again, wasn’t saying that your bottom of the barrel contracts are an equivalent to our best contracts, merely point out that all the unions have a couple shitty contracts and to continuing to point fingers saying one union or another is paying like shit throughout every contract just isn’t accurate or productive.
I will change it when the AMO stops undercutting wages every chance they get.
This supposed upcoming interaction with APL is a prime opportunity to show their membership and the industry as a whole where their priorities are… One way or the other.
1 Like
Deleted because we’re getting to far off topic.
This old rhetoric cry of AMO undercutting is over 10years too old. MMP has been clearly been undercutting. Theres no point in denying it and saying ra ra my union is better when it clearly is not.
MMP did this to themselves. The fight with APL over having 2 third mates stupid. APL was the only company employing 2 third mates without even a demanding coastwise run. The 3rd mates at MMP didn’t like it anyway because the OT would be split and you’d end up making the worst wages in the industry without any job security. Delaying filling jobs and suing and doing a bunch of crap. MMP needed the cash for their plans which is in trouble and the school that has financial problems. The sketchy financials was also a reason the MMP takes members’ wages on express ships and designates them plans contributions. So you had a MEBA mate making significantly more than an MMP mate on the same ship.
AMO and MEBA are more willing to work with employers while MMP is more willing to fight with them over stupid crap.
Losing these Patriot ships is a huge hit for the MMP. The question should be is MMP going to financially survive?
If the AMO and MEBA are teaming up, which seems like is the only possible way for a significant amount of ships to be flagged in the US fleet with any sort of success, then where does that leave MMP.
I doubt any new tonnage ships in this new strategic commercial fleet program will include MMP. I would be surprised if Matson and Pasha want to even work with them. Companies don’t want irrational people and the financial headache.
1 Like
Pasha already has a couple (few?) AMO ships. I’ve wondered lately if they’re not next after APL, if this all ends the way they’re saying it will.
Yes Pasha has some AMO top to bottom. If they flag in new ships I highly doubt they will be MMP. My guess is they will either be AMO top to bottom or some combination of AMO and MEBA.
This is hypothetical I have no clue if pasha plans to flag any new ships in to the USA.