Do US Credentials transfer to European Credentials

My husband has his DDE 4000 and is currently working in the Gulf. Our family wants to move to Europe and he is trying to look into working over there but we are having a hard time figuring out the credentials. Can any of you help shed some light…
Thanks

[QUOTE=Starsleeve;167463]My husband has his DDE 4000 and is currently working in the Gulf. Our family wants to move to Europe and he is trying to look into working over there but we are having a hard time figuring out the credentials. Can any of you help shed some light…
Thanks[/QUOTE]

they don’t in any nation other than the UK I believe

[QUOTE=Starsleeve;167463]My husband has his DDE 4000 and is currently working in the Gulf. Our family wants to move to Europe and he is trying to look into working over there but we are having a hard time figuring out the credentials. [/QUOTE]

He will need to contact the maritime authority of the country you plan on moving to and ask them about obtaining a “certificate of equivalent competency” (doubtful for a DDE) or if they will accept his current documentation and seatime toward their national certificate.

Don’t hold your breath hoping for much though … the European systems normally require extensive formal training at recognized schools.

On the other hand, unless he really wants or needs to sail on a vessel registered under the flag of whichever country you live in, and or plan to work domestically, getting an “endorsement” from a FoC nation to hold a similar position (3000kW limited EOOW probably) might be a low paying never have a homelife option.

[QUOTE=Starsleeve;167463]My husband has his DDE 4000 and is currently working in the Gulf. Our family wants to move to Europe and he is trying to look into working over there but we are having a hard time figuring out the credentials. Can any of you help shed some light…
Thanks[/QUOTE]

I’m an Academy grad and have been sailing as a Deck officer on Norwegian Flagged LNG tanker. It was simple for me to apply for a Norwegian endorsement. Keep in mind he will have to apply for an endorsement for the flag of the Vessel and not the country of residence.

[QUOTE=Starsleeve;167463]My husband has his DDE 4000 and is currently working in the Gulf. Our family wants to move to Europe and he is trying to look into working over there but we are having a hard time figuring out the credentials. Can any of you help shed some light…
Thanks[/QUOTE]

I don’t think he’ll have much luck with his license. His best bet is to try for a reciprocate merchant mariners document using his QMED MMD. I have seen that done but never seen one of the USA limited licenses accepted except by FOC countries.

Limited licenses don’t transfer well. If he was an 3AE or higher it’s probably be a different story.

[QUOTE=tengineer1;167498]I don’t think he’ll have much luck with his license. His best bet is to try for a reciprocate merchant mariners document using his QMED MMD. I have seen that done but never seen one of the USA limited licenses accepted except by FOC countries.[/QUOTE]

It will be harder still for anyone without an STCW endorsement/certificate. Althouigh, in this particular case there may be some benfit to the confuasing simnilarity in the language of the title of the U.S. national endorsement, and the full title of Section III/1 of STCW.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;167539]It will be harder still for anyone without an STCW endorsement/certificate. Althouigh, in this particular case there may be some benfit to the confuasing simnilarity in the language of the title of the U.S. national endorsement, and the full title of Section III/1 of STCW.[/QUOTE]

I have been told specifically by the Danes that EU nations will not recognize a US issued STCW because they do not believe the USCG training standards meet the mandated requirements of the Code. I know that these EU nations are “supposed” to recognize a certificate issued by any signatory state but they elect not to I guess the same way the US won’t recognize theirs?

What are your thoughts on this?

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The Netherlands signed a bilateral agreement with the US in March of this year, They will accept US credentials and training for a Dutch CEC (License).

As of March 2015 the US and the Netherlands signed an I/10 Agreement allowing US Mariners to Obtain Dutch Licensing. However the Dutch can not get a US License…

[QUOTE=lm1883;167545]What about obtaining a Marshall Islands license first and submit that to the EU or what ever? I know for a fact they will accept those.[/QUOTE]

that would be an original Marshall Islands Certificate of Competency and not an endorsement. How many mariners have original CoC’s is I am sure very small in number.

an endorsement is nothing more than a flag state to say that they accept the mariner’s original CoC generally issued from the nation that the mariner is a citizen of. Some nations do not even allow licenses they issue to be held by non citizens…the USA being a perfect example of.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;167557]that would be an original Marshall Islands Certificate of Competency and not an endorsement. How many have original CoC’s in I am sure very small in number.

an endorsement is nothing more than a flag state to say that they accept the mariner’s original CoC generally issued from the nation that the mariner is a citizen of. Some nations do not even allow licenses they issue to be held by non citizens…the USA being a perfect example of.[/QUOTE]

Which makes the system silly, Why the hell are we accepting US licesee if the US does not accept our licenses? Doesn’t it defeat the purpose of STCW? Fuck it.

We need Captain Max to do an expose on this whole nonsense. Only a world renown master mariner lawyer journalist like him could peel the layers back and shine a spotlight on this bureaucratic pharce.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;167564]We need Captain Max to do an expose on this whole nonsense. Only a world renown master mariner lawyer journalist like him could peel the layers back and shine a spotlight on this bureaucratic pharce.[/QUOTE]

Max came out with a whole new blog commentary a couple of days ago and guess what, it has absolutely nothing to do with the Jones Act or US mariners…surprise, surprise, surprise!

[B]Anti-piracy: Mallet vs. mole[/B]

Capt. Max Hardberger

8/18/2015

Waterborne piracy is as old as water transportation and unlikely to disappear any time soon, in spite of recent successes in the Indian Ocean, the world’s most-notorious pirate waters.

Just as a combination of pacification ashore, armed guards onboard and the European Union Naval Force ATALANTA (EU NAVFOR) brought success in suppressing this threat (there have been no successful commercial vessel hijackings on the Somali coast since 2013), piracy on the west coast of Africa popped up like a mole. Now, as the Gulf of Guinea sees a respite from such attacks, the pirates of the Straits of Malacca are raising their ugly heads again.

Always ready to respond to changing circumstances, the West Africa pirates weren’t interested in holding ships for ransom. That requires lawless territory, like the Somalia coastline during the civil war, and not even the most dysfunctional country on Africa’s west coast would permit a ship to remain hijacked on its shores. So these pirates naturally turned to the cargoes. Liquid fuels like crude and diesel can be pumped into barges or trucks and disappear into the vast maw of Africa’s black market. The hijacked crews are sometimes taken ashore and held as hostages, but more often the survivors — these pirates are no more considerate of human life than Somali pirates — are released with the ship after the fuel is pumped off.

The hothouse atmosphere of Africa’s west coast is conducive to this kind of smaller-scale piracy, in a region where more-ambitious attempts are likely to end with a storming of the ship and blood in the scuppers. But the technique can also work elsewhere, as the brigands of the Malacca Straits, the original pirates of the modern age, are showing. They’ve apparently learned from their West African colleagues that liquid fuels are a lot easier to steal and sell than ships and crews.

According to an Aug. 9 news item on Maritime Bulletin, the products tanker Joaquim was reported missing in the Malacca Straits the previous night. Several days later she was found in a remote cove with its cargo of 3,500 tons of oil gone and the crew traumatized by beatings. Indonesian authorities later detained a vessel suspected of receiving the stolen cargo, but it doesn’t appear the oil or the pirates were ever found.

Just as pirates can learn from their colleagues’ successful adaptations, so can anti-piracy authorities. For example, we’ve learned from the Somali experience that control of coastal places of refuge is essential. However, this can’t be done piecemeal. In 2012, when I went with President Abdi Qeybdiid of Galmudug —accompanied, of course, by his militia — to the pirate town of Hobyo, we found the pirates gone. But the pirates had simply moved their base and the two ships they were holding 60 miles south, to Al Shabaab territory where they could pay for protection.

Unfortunately for them, Al Shabaab proved prickly allies — for starters, they didn’t like the pirates’ weakness for booze and prostitutes — and the advent of armed shipboard guards and the EU NAVFOR flotilla ended their pirate careers, at least for the time being. So for the most part, they’ve gone back to camel herding or working in private militias. A few, in a nice piece of irony, have found work as armed guards on the Yemeni trawlers constantly poaching in Somali waters, fighting off other Somali pirates.

This doesn’t mean the Somali pirate threat to commercial shipping is over. I met some fishermen in Hobyo who likely had piracy in their backgrounds, and I didn’t get the impression they’d given it up for good. Even “the pirate king of Hobyo,” who fled to Puntland when he heard President Qeybdiid was coming, made sure his half-completed mansion was well fenced and boarded up before he left.

The lesson here is that although piracy can’t be erased it can be suppressed. The measures that worked in the Indian Ocean can work everywhere. A natural confluence of technological advances, including AIS reporting and tracking, naval forces coordination, and intelligence gathering, will continue to help. Some regulatory changes, including a relaxation of some nations’ laws restricting onboard possession of arms, could also help. But ultimately it will be our ability to adapt to the continuing adaptations of the pirates themselves that will prevail.

and this was what I added

Max, I am sure you are going to enjoy the peace and quiet you will receive now that you are no longer commenting on the US maritime industry. I applaud your wisdom to forebear any further op/eds which will cause furor with myself and my brothers. Just know that I will be checking back frequently to ensure you do not transgress again into territory where you do not belong.

I believe Max would be imminently qualified to discuss the Haitian flag and licenses. Not that there are any or that anyone would consider them useful for anything other than wiping up a nasty brown stain…

Time for Max to move to Haiti or Somolia, he seems to enjoy it so much more than the U.S.

[QUOTE=LI_Domer;167574]Time for Max to move to Haiti or Somolia, he seems to enjoy it so much more than the U.S.[/QUOTE]

I’d buy him a one way ticket to Puntland but then he posted a photo of this place on his Facebook page…looks very fitting for a man of his immense stature

anyone who has spent time in the third world knows exactly the retched hideous stench of the place. Doesn’t matter whet country or continent…it is always the same

[QUOTE=lm1883;167545]What about obtaining a Marshall Islands license first and submit that to the EU or what ever? I know for a fact they will accept those.

Edit - let me change that to fairly confident.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure Marshall Islands issues STCW certificates, they may only endorse certificates issued by other countries. If they only endorse other countries certificates, you would need to first get a U.S. issued STCW certificate (STCW endorsements in the MMC).

Under STCW, countries can issue certificates based on training and service they approved and evaluated, or they can endorse another flag’s certificates. Also, the basis for endorsement is not only that the country is found to be in compliance with STCW (“white list”), the endorsing country needs to make their own determination that the country whose certificates they will endorse have comparable standards consistent with STCW.

[QUOTE=c.captain;167540]I have been told specifically by the Danes that EU nations will not recognize a US issued STCW because they do not believe the USCG training standards meet the mandated requirements of the Code.

What are your thoughts on this?

.[/QUOTE]

Harrummph … in the interest of civility I will not say what my thoughts about the Danish maritime authority are. A few years ago I was auditing a boat and found the chief engineer held an expired license limited to 3000kW. He was kicked off of course but showed back up about 3 months later with a newly issued Danish unlimited chief engineer CoC that he got by somehow completing the required 12 months of seatime as 2nd Eng (what we call a 1st Asst) during his short absence.

He used that to obtain a Cayman Islands endorsement and when shown the documentation that proved the license was obtained fraudulently, Caymans stated that they chose not to get into a fight with Denmark as they needed their support at IMO.

Training and STCW standards take a distant second place to politics and economics.

My husband, William, currently has a DDE4000 but is about to test for this 3RD assistant next month. Do you guys think with an officer endorsement it would help? With the way things are going in the Gulf we don’t see the point in staying with Chouest. Do any of you have recommendations on companies to apply with for overseas work?

do some research, layoffs are just as bad there as the gulf Give or take.