Designated Examiners for TOAR

[QUOTE=Robert Johnson;57685]PR-9, thanks for the info. I didnt realize the DE letters were only good for 2 years. Guess once I find one I need to check the designation date. My problem is that I am active duty CG and have been running CG tug/barge cutters for the last 9 years, and trying to play the licensing game for when I retire. Guess what the Cg doesnt have: any DE’s of their own. So it is an uphill battle every step of the way.[/QUOTE]

No one in the Coast Guard has ever requested to be approved as a Designated Examiner. There is no reason why someone in the Coast Guard cannot be a DE if they have the appropriate level of experience and training, and if their vessels’ operations are sufficiently equivalent to commercial operations that candidates can be legitimately assessed on their ability to operate a commercial towing vessel. I would suggest you encourage suitably qualified cuttermen to request approval as a Designated Examiner. It is a straightforward, simple process. Send an e-mail to D05-DG-NMCCourses and they will explain the process.

[QUOTE=cappy208;57703]…Unless at an accredited school, a DE letter authorizing the holder to be a DE ONLY applies to the vessel ( or companies vessels) for the evaluations to be valid…[/QUOTE]

This isn’t entirel;y accurate. Approval as a DE is given to the individual and is not contingent on their working for a certain company or ona certain vessel. Companies may submit requests for approval of their employees as DEs, but the approval belongs to the individual. This is why the cover letter back to the company directs them to give the original approval letter to the DE. If a DE leaves the company that requested their approval, they are still a vlid DE and can act as such. The only contraint on a DE is the approval time period, and the routes and tasks they acn sign for.

[QUOTE=Robert Johnson;57708]Wow, tons of great info on the 500T sub-forum.

I have been contemplating the possibility of finding a “local” fleeting towboat company that has a DE, and see if I can broker some sort of deal to ride with them as my schedule permits, doing the training and eval for TOAR with them that way. I am thinking that it works well for my flexible work schedule, would not require tracking down a tow somewhere along its trip then having to figure out how to hop off and get a ride back to work or home, has actual hands-on experience with a variety of scenarios and would be legitimate training and evaluation, and not cost the tow company any salary or benefits. Just one of the ideas how to make things happen since there is no DE for the CG.[/QUOTE]

As I noted, I think your best option is to encourage and work with someone in the USCG to get approved as a Designated Examiner. Your proposal to ride with a towing company may not be a s simple as it appears. Alythough you would not be compensated, you would still present a significant liability risk for a company. You might be considered to be a “Jones Act seaman” there are issues related to liability in the event of an accident (the TOAR reruires you to perform tasks that if done incorrectly could result in personnel injury or property damage. There rae also issues of whether there is a passenger for hire situation, or whether the vessel is acting as a de facto nautical school vessel. If you pursue this option, I suggest you treat as you would if you were compensated, and follow accepted procedures for active duty Coast Guardsmen seeking outside employment.

Getting someone in the USCG approved as a DE is by far your best option.

Getting someone in the USCG approved as a DE is by far your best option.

Based on the experience you described earlier you should be that DE. Although I don’t know how that would work for the TOAR for yourself. Perhaps you could get approved and also someone else and sign each other off. :wink:

So when will it be possible to request DE status on one’s own, instead if having to go through the company?

You can!

I don’t have my letter with me, but I was fairly certain it had a phrase somewhat like: is authorized to serve as DE aboard (company) vessels.? I’ll have to check that out when I go home next week.

If I can travel… Let the whoring begin!

MPT has a simulator course where you can get your TOAR signed off. You will still need your 30 days of sea service under evaluation and traing on a towing vessel. I believe its around $3500 bucks.

[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;57732]So when will it be possible to request DE status on one’s own, instead if having to go through the company?[/QUOTE]

It has always been possible. That’s how I got mine. I just sent in a letter requesting approval, and after a bit I got it. As Mr. Cavo says, the DE letter is given to an individual, not a company, so there is nothing that prevents any individual from requesting DE approval.

[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;57732]So when will it be possible to request DE status on one’s own, instead if having to go through the company?[/QUOTE]I

It has always been possible.

I got my TOAR in 2005 and I wasn’t aware of the change! Thank you!

[QUOTE=PR-9;57684]Ea The letter of approval for a DE is only good for 2 years. So you will find a lot of captains that tell you they got it and when you send it in the USCG will deny your TOAR cause their letters must be valid at the time they signed your TOAR.

Good luck!![/QUOTE]

You may want to look at this:


When the USCG started issuing DE Letters, they were issued for 2 years, but as of Nov. 1, 2007, they are now issued for 5 years.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;57721]No one in the Coast Guard has ever requested to be approved as a Designated Examiner. There is no reason why someone in the Coast Guard cannot be a DE if they have the appropriate level of experience and training, and if their vessels’ operations are sufficiently equivalent to commercial operations that candidates can be legitimately assessed on their ability to operate a commercial towing vessel. I would suggest you encourage suitably qualified cuttermen to request approval as a Designated Examiner. It is a straightforward, simple process. Send an e-mail to D05-DG-NMCCourses and they will explain the process.[/QUOTE]

Are the requirements to be a DE spelled out anywhere? Preferably in the CFRs but anywhere, like in a policy letter? I can find a mention of Designated Examiners in the CFR but no reference to where the requirements for one are.

On a related note, I heard that the guidelines for DE changed recently (relatively) and now one must have 10 years as a master on towing vessels to get a DE. I wanted to verify that by seeing it in writing somewhere if possible.

Additionally, the company is telling a deckhand who is getting his license two things that I think are wrong and I want to clarify for future reference:

  1. That the TOAR he has mostly completed with his captain is invalid because he does not have a license yet. I was under the impression that a TOAR could be completed before receiving a license. Which is correct?

  2. That he needs “30 days training and observation” AFTER getting his license even though he has been a deckhand on the boats and waters he will be working on as mate for around two years now. Doesn’t previous tug deckhand time count as the “30 days training and observation” required for a TOAR to be valid?

Anyone have answers to any of these?

[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;59217]Anyone have answers to any of these?[/QUOTE]

Probably not. This appears to be an area the CG didn’t think through very well.

Notice how [I]"…if they have the appropriate level of experience and training, and if their vessels’ operations are sufficiently equivalent …"[/I] applies to a TOAR but not the assessment of upper level license holders or candidates.

I thought you saw it on the circular he posted. Go to the main page, and underneath the post about the DE info is another link: DE responsibilities and how to administer a TOAR. Or some such wording.

What circular? Does it answer the other questions about if a person can compete a TOAR before they have a license, etc?

THere is a guy in NY, Sam Zapadinsky (I think that is the spelling) and I think his company is Diamond Marine Services. Last I heard, for $1200 they are set up to sign off your TOAR. It is for folks that have experience, and are capable of completing the assessments but do not otherwise have access to a DE. www.diamondmarineservices.com

I’ve been to Sam there. Good guy, won’t sign off unless he knows you can handle it. I worked West coast & Alaska towing for a bit and no Captains had their DE for whichever reason, I needed my license endorsed and Sam helped me step in the right direction. Legit.