Death of Hawespipers


They had a deal at the Holliday inn express at the time it was the only place with a shuttle service. I didn’t have a car too expensive to park.


I stayed at an airbnb by the University of Washington that was $210 for 7 nights. He was offering month-to-month for $700 and much less for shared rooms. This included a kitchen for all guests.


I looked through the USCG approved courses and the only places I found were you could take all of the OICEW courses (besides MAMA) were STAR center and San Jacinto college in the Houston area. San Jacinto’s total was 15 weeks and $16,000 compared to MAMA’s 13 weeks @ $13,700.

I know the STAR center is affiliated with AMO so I don’t know their policy for non-union students.


If it’s the up near the Space Needle, I’ve stayed there several times.


All the what ifs aside, I will say that after all the busting my ass, studying and classes I took to get this close it really sucks to have to be moved down the watch bill again. No matter how I work it I’m looking at another year if not 2 before I can put the uniform back on.


I grew up on the Great Lakes Shenango Furnace Company ships my Dad sailed as an engineer. In 1960 I began as a Coalpasser on the 1911 built Edmund W Mudge. The Mudge had two hand fired three furnace Scotch Marine Boilers. In 1961 I was a Deckhand Ordinary Seaman on the C4 conversion Joseph H. Thompson April 29 - June 24. When I, and three others of our crew, flew to Baltimore where we joined the Leon Falk Jr a T2 conversion June 26. We laid up the Falk in Ashtabula OH December 6.

1962 & 63 I was F/WT on the Joseph H. Thompson. 1964 & 65 I was an Oiler on the George M. Humphrey. March 1966 I got my Original 3 A/E license in Cleveland via the Lake Carriers School taught by CE George Rector and CE Eli Rantanas.

My first licensed job was the Joseph H. Thompson March 24, 1966 that I quit September 10. Oh, our MEBA rep came aboard and showed pictures of ships fully loaded and ready to sail to 'Nam. Anchored in San Francisco Bay due to a lack of engineers. He waved the flag around and I quit.

October 1, 1966 I joined SS Missouri a C4 in Baltimore loading grain destined for Calicut India we paid off in Port Arthur Texas December 12.


Dang man. You got your old continuous discharge book out of the attic or what? I can’t remember dates I was aboard from last year!

Sounds like you had a good ride for your career.


The most hilarious thing about all of this is most of the 3rds fresh from the academy I’ve come across can barely accomplish basic tasks without being told exactly what to do by another engineer or QMED, I’m not saying they’re stupid because for the most part they are intelligent guys. They just have no idea what they’re doing. The academies should have their accreditations revoked, they can’t even fix a fucking toilet!


If they can’t fix a toilet, what’s the use of an Engineer then??


I know career residential plumbers who wouldn’t even know where to start troubleshooting an Zodiac EVAC vacuum sewage plant. That doesn’t make them bad plumbers & their licenses shouldn’t be revoked. They just don’t have the experience. But they could be trained if they have the manual & a good teacher/boss.

Troubleshooting is a skill. The more a person practices that skill the better they get at it. That is why old hands who have worked on 1 vessel for numerous years seem to be geniuses. They have years of the same troubleshooting, over & over. They skip over a bunch of steps because of their past experiences.

Every American 3AE academy grad that I ever worked with eventually got the hang of it & excelled. Some of them learned faster than others & exceeded my expectations. Once the 3AE’s gained the experience they were better or eqaul to any other person in the engine room. I wish I could say the same about my fellow hawespipers but unfortunately some hawespipers only attempt at problem solving involved the USCG test bank & not the fundamentals. I know the new USCG requirements will turn out better hawespipers. Thank goodness for that.


Amen to that. Hawsepipers and academy grads alike. I have to say that I’ve been disgusted by the number of times I’ve heard co-workers in the oil patch say “I just memorized the problems and answers and passed.” Makes me wish we had oral boards like MCA when I hear someone say that.


The new STCW assessment sign off booklets are another step in the right direction. I’m a QA & I won’t sign off on a subordinate unless they get it exactly right. QA’s are evaluation boards of 1.


You know I was curious as to the difference between OICEW and OICNW because all of the navigational officers keep saying “ours are way worse it is like a zillion dollars!” so here it is:
OICEW - 80 days, 1 school offers all a few offer 1 or 2, Total: $13,700
OICNW - 73 days, every maritime school on the plant offers them, $13,435 **

**just using the same school OICEW is offered sure you can get it lower shopping around
***Not counting BRM/ERM, medical, BST, B/A FF, or prof in survival craft on either of the costs.


“On the planet”; Does that includes schools outside USA??
Or is USA on it’s own planet?/


USCG only recognizes domestic schools for STCW classes (as has been stated ad nauseum on other threads), so that question is moot.


Most of the hawsepipe engineers i’ve worked with have been hilariously bad. Like a 1 A/E not understanding head pressure. Guy never would’ve made it through a school, but he sure as shit can memorize a few exam questions.


Until you get a QA that feels bad for the guy so signs him off anyway, even though he’s incompetent. I’ve seen that happen with RFPEW assessments and the company had to say “even though the USCG gave you an RFPEW rating we won’t give you RFPEW pay until we are told by engineers we trust that you’re competent.”


Exactly right according to the assessment or real world experience?


Only recognizing domestic schools for international requirements seems absurd.


There should be reciprocity and mutual acceptance. At least for the trustworthy countries, like Canada, UK, etc.

The problem would be getting other countries to recognize US courses.