Currently in east coast pool…
(17) Third Mates
(6) Second Mates
And a whole lot of other folks!
That’s about $29000 of our tax dollars getting flushed down the toilet this week on non-productive salaries. That’s almost an entry level person’s yearly salary! Now, if you factor in the cost of meals, transportation, and lodging we’re over $40,000 just for the mates alone this week. I conservatively used a $50 hotel rate and a $25 meal rate per day and did not factor in what it costs to contract a bus(s) for the week. The real number could be closer to $50K. And nobody is driving a ship.
Fraud, waste and abuse.
We deliver!
I wonder how many of those are recently hired ring knockers.
Lets just say 100 people in the pool made a $100 a day for a year. That’s $3,600,000 to do nothing. Now, let’s feed, transport and lodge them for that same year. Tack on another $2,700,000. This is the type of diseconomy of scale that MSC has let get way out of hand.
Wait a minute … one day the forum is filled with people complaining about not being able to get a relief. So how are reliefs supposed to be supplied and new hires entered into the system if there is no “buffer area” for them to hold while waiting for a ship? Are mariners supposed to just hang out at home “on call” with no pay until somebody in a MSC office decides they need someone to fill a slot?
How many of you guys would accept a job with XYZ towing if they “hired” you then sent you home with no pay to wait for a call? How long would you sit by the phone?
I am among those who would love to see MARAD and MSC management tossed out on the street for fraud, waste, and abuse but geez, find real examples to complain about.
Good point Steamer! The CIVMAR pools are a necessary evil you could say.
As federal employees we are not allowed to just sit at home and recieve a federal paycheck. This is where MSC and the union/contract folks differ.
So once you burn thru all your leave it is time to sign into the pool and get that delicious cespool gravy $$$.
MSC…welfare on water…yes please!!
[QUOTE=Steamer;57817] geez, find real examples to complain about.[/QUOTE]
What’s not real about a multi-million dollar expenditure which gives the taxpayer little or nothing in return?
[QUOTE=KneelbeforeZod!;57824]What’s not real about a multi-million dollar expenditure which gives the taxpayer little or nothing in return?[/QUOTE]
I have personally witnessed MARAD waste more than that on a single voyage.
Let us know if you have a better way to provide the right mariner at the right time in the right place without spending some money.
We are bordering on “situational ethics” with this argument but learn to pick your battles before you whine about the best of bad choices. If you are truly interested in saving taxpayer money or seeing that it is spent where it can do some good, then campaign to close down KP, fight to make sure American military cargo is carried only on DoD or MARAD owned ships, and scream bloody murder when the CG talks about “recognizing” foreign licenses for use onboard American ships.
At least the pool system employs American mariners and ensures that there is a supply of them ready to serve onboard DoD ships. If you want more American mariners to be starved out of existence then just say so, don’t whine about a system that serves both MSC and the mariner.
The daily rate per person to store someone in Norfolk is $108. This is hotel, food and transportation. This is independent of rate.
A third mate daily base pay is about $186.
This works out to about $35k a week for seventeen third mates.
How many of you guys would accept a job with XYZ towing if they “hired” you then sent you home with no pay to wait for a call?
Steamer- isnt that what most maritime UNIONS do? seems like par for the course
My complaint is that MSC keeps hiring and hiring third mates from the academies. They are well past the point of making sure there are enough reliefs. Currently they are at 150% of what they need.
This is aggravated by the fact that there are many currently employed ABs with licenses - that the tax payers already paid for - who are already trained and will not be promoted because MSC wants to hire ring knockers.
It’s waste on one side with more waste on the other side. Waste, waste, waste! That’s the disgusting part.
It’s similar to MSC running ships off the coast of Somalia at 25+ knots doing box ops. They just waste fuel at four dollars a gallon for giggles.
[QUOTE=Steamer;57826]I have personally witnessed MARAD waste more than that on a single voyage.
Let us know if you have a better way to provide the right mariner at the right time in the right place without spending some money.
We are bordering on “situational ethics” with this argument but learn to pick your battles before you whine about the best of bad choices. If you are truly interested in saving taxpayer money or seeing that it is spent where it can do some good, then campaign to close down KP, fight to make sure American military cargo is carried only on DoD or MARAD owned ships, and scream bloody murder when the CG talks about “recognizing” foreign licenses for use onboard American ships.
At least the pool system employs American mariners and ensures that there is a supply of them ready to serve onboard DoD ships. If you want more American mariners to be starved out of existence then just say so, don’t whine about a system that serves both MSC and the mariner.[/QUOTE]
It appears you no nothing of MSC or “situational ethics”.
[QUOTE=KneelbeforeZod!;57892]It appears you no nothing of MSC or “situational ethics”.[/QUOTE]
So tell us how to hire and supply reliefs and replacements in a “just in time” fashion ala the union hiring hall.
I am not saying MSC or MARAD or any group controlled by the inbreds that feed off the taxpayer need defending but, until MSC gets out of the employment agency business and contracts with a union or some other employment agency to supply the right bodies at exactly the right time, this is what we get.
DeckApe, this is for you too:
Since (I believe anyway) none of those in command at MARAD or MSC have ever had a real world civilian job where they could be fired for the level of incompetence and stupidity that defines them now, there is ZERO chance they will let go of the civmar hiring process. Like dangerous viruses or parasites, they need to replicate, they can’t afford to share the host.
They have little risk of the system changing if they hire lemmings from KP. Because their job description doesn’t include rational hiring policies and their employment, advancement, or pension is not threatened by inbreeding and what any other agency would consider malfeasance or at least misfeasance. The system is broken but the only people who can fix it are those who would lose their jobs by doing so. Until these discussions are held in the general press so that people in Kansas will know where that part of their taxes are squandered, it isn’t going to change.
[QUOTE=KneelbeforeZod!;57892]It appears you no nothing of MSC or “situational ethics”.[/QUOTE]
Well, off topic but speaking of ethics what’s up with that avatar?Blackface!
K.C.
It seems like instituting a basic 4 month on, 4 month off rotation would end the problem of people living in the pool for long periods of time. Dont give crew the option to stay on a ship indefinitely, make everyone change at 4 months (or as close as practical, and the office that tells the ship where to go needs to be involved) and problem solved.
That assumes no one quits or has other reasons to leave the ship early or return late. It also does not address how to provide replacements.
I think MSC should get out of the employment agency business and turn manning over to a union. Rotary shipping works and it works well, as long as the person has the certificates required for the job, where they got them has no bearing on being dispatched.
That would be a good idea, but civmars cannot get more leave than they get now. Civmars are government employees and therefore tied to certain rules on leave as are other DOD employees. Over the years we saw anything that was ever going to better the life of civmars always without fail was seen as not legal. Basically it’s a funding issue. A good argument could be made that without the pool cost funds could be used to give more vacation to civmars, but once more we run into the legal DOD issues. To sell that idea one would have to sell it to the navy. The navy is not manned by people that have to show performance to remain employed, Therefore given the usn and Msc not being organizations that must show a profit the is no need to change. To make it even worse Msc employes a number of retired usn that are used to not performing to remain employed and bring with them the ability to remain seated at a desk, not performing and drawing a nice pay check. Thinking out of the box is not a front point of the usn or retired usn officers. Hence what we have is a stalemate where nothing gets done to better the civmar and hence the operation while Msc remains a retirement day care center for failed naval officers. Nothing will change, nothing ever has. In fact I look for the future of Msc to be vastly cut perhaps to the point of layoffs ( called rifs), laying up ships and even perhaps contracting out given the current budget battles within the government.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;57896]Well, off topic but speaking of ethics what’s up with that avatar?Blackface!
K.C.[/QUOTE]
I’ve caught myself being insensitive again. I apologize.
[QUOTE=KneelbeforeZod!;58135]I’ve caught myself being insensitive again. I apologize.[/QUOTE]
Just so it’s clear what we are talking your avatar is what is called “black face” which “a style of entertainment based on racist Black stereotypes”
It’s not the fact that you are using it so much is the fact that you have done so for so long, nothing has been said and even when it is pointed out that it is offensive no other forum member spoke up.
This is my last post on the gcaptain forum.
K.C.
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;58142]Just so it’s clear what we are talking your avatar is what is called “black face” which “a style of entertainment based on racist Black stereotypes”
It’s not the fact that you are using it so much is the fact that you have done so for so long, nothing has been said and even when it is pointed out that it is offensive no other forum member spoke up.
This is my last post on the gcaptain forum.
K.C.[/QUOTE]
Once again, I apologize if you found my avatar offensive. I have changed it. Please reconsider leaving the forum. Your input will be missed.