As I said, I do not believe any American company is incorporating MLC in its contracts.
Apparently, you are working for an American owned Vanuatu company. You might have said that in The first place, instead of just saying that you are working in the Gulf. Who would t assume that working in the Gulf means on an American flag vessel.
It’s unfortunate that your company is allowed to work a foreign flag vessel in the Gulf. I hope that changes.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;175839]As I said, I do not believe any American company is incorporating MLC in its contracts.
[/QUOTE]
[U]Any[/U] American company or do you mean one working in GOM? Any ship trading to countries that are parties to the MLC are subject to comply with the convention now that it is in force. As in:
[I]Port States: The inspection in ports depends on whether a Certificate of Maritime Compliance is present (and thus a flag is flown of a country which has ratified the convention). If the Certificate is present, compliance is to be assumed in principle, and further investigations only take place if the certificate is not in order or there are indications of non-compliance. For ships that don’t have the certificate, inspections are much more detailed and should ensure -according to a “no more favorable treatment principle”[5] that the ship has complied with the provisions of the convention. [B]The convention is thus -indirectly- also valid for ships of non-member countries if they plan to call to ports of a member state.[/B][/I] (bold added)
Therefore even American flag ship would probably have employment contracts on file. This does not mean a union would necessarily be involved only that a “legal” contract is in place. But if a union is involved a CBA could form part of the contract as well. Without the union and its collective resources as others have said, an individuals only recourse would be with lawyers in courts on your own so to speak. And no, no negotiating is involved that I have seen. You are OK with the terms you sign otherwise keep walking. The power of a union to influence working conditions and compensation can not be ignored but the MLC does not require collective bargaining only a legal contract.
[QUOTE=jbtam99;175837]You should ask what flag boat a person is on before you tell a person they’re wrong. I sail on a foreign flag boat that’s signatory to MLC. Any Vanuatu flag vessel is required to comply with MLC, contracts and all.[/QUOTE]
Is your contract current & would you quit & take it to court with you if the terms weren’t met? Or is yours like mine, a half decade old, only being pulled out to pass inspections and when entering foreign ports where they care about mariner contracts? No inspectors has ever asked me to provide a paycheck stub or bank receipt to see if the numbers matched up.
The reason I never worried about updating my old contract is because it is a hassle & because I never felt I needed that contract to ensure my employer lived up to their end of the agreement. Long before I feel I need those pieces of paper & a judge to be properly compensated I’ll quit I go some where else. It is a shame but from my experiences some union reps will instigate animosity between the voters & management to garner support for the next election and eventually you end up with a work environment where both parties are always combing the contract trying to find ways to screw the other. Some love working for unions, others hate it. I am grateful U.S Mariners get to choose to be union or not. Many mariners across the globe hate their Unions or Syndicates but being a member is the only option they have if they want to work on the water.
Taking this thread back to its original 1st post.
Today, Tidewater stock (TDW) is at 6 bucks. It was at 50something. I am certainly not a stock broker, but I owned this stock in the 80’s and 90’s after I worked there. Sold it all in 2005. 6 bucks is cheap.
Some companies are going away, some will stay, that is how it works, by 2021 or so things will be different.
Tidewater in the $6 range is 1/5 of its value 20 years ago, clearly well beyond the 2008 stock market decline. This looks like a signal of industry changes coming, but no catalyst to merge/consolidate with so much idle equipment.
My company just served out 25% paycut (on top of all the others) across the board and a mandatory 28/14 rotation which means demotions for those who were on opposite hitches to relief status. My wages have gone back 10 years. Nobody is kidding themselves that the old wages or rotation will come back quickly when things pick up. Its probably going to be like this for 1-2 years.
Two years? OPEC says it will be at least two years before demand equals production. In the mean time the glut will continue to put oil into storage. It will take a few more years after that for the stored oil to be used up and prices to normalize.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;176440]Two years? OPEC says it will be at least two years before demand equals production. In the mean time the glut will continue to put oil into storage. It will take a few more years after that for the stored oil to be used up and prices to normalize.[/QUOTE]
Expert opinion here: http://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/142145/Not_Such_Great_Expectations_Energy_Insiders_Contemplate_2016/?pgNum=1
I guess I’m a optimist but your probably right. I’m looking for new opportunities now. Speaking for myself, I doubt a lot of us will come back.
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;176430]My company just served out 25% paycut (on top of all the others) across the board and a mandatory 28/14 rotation which means demotions for those who were on opposite hitches to relief status. My wages have gone back 10 years. Nobody is kidding themselves that the old wages or rotation will come back quickly when things pick up. Its probably going to be like this for 1-2 years.[/QUOTE]
Everyone needs to look long and hard how your company is treating you in this down turn. Cuts for most companies are inevitable but the manner in which they do it is important. I can tell you that some companies are flat out taking advantage of people because they can. Remember all of this when times return because they should be taken advantage of then. A good company is fair in good times and bad…don’t forget.
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;176430]My company just served out 25% paycut (on top of all the others) across the board and a mandatory 28/14 rotation which means demotions for those who were on opposite hitches to relief status. My wages have gone back 10 years. Nobody is kidding themselves that the old wages or rotation will come back quickly when things pick up. Its probably going to be like this for 1-2 years.[/QUOTE]
Practically what does this mean? Demotion to relief status? If everyone is working on 28 and off 14 who gets demoted and how are the demoted ones chosen? It is rather confusing.
The whole situation sucks and will be awkward for everyone onboard when a former equal is now subordinate. Crew change comes and you hand off the job for 2 weeks until you come back. No pay increase when the relief takes over. I’d rather take the pay cut and leave the rotation alone. Hoping a new job comes along fast.
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;176576]The whole situation sucks and will be awkward for everyone onboard when a former equal is now subordinate. Crew change comes and you hand off the job for 2 weeks until you come back. No pay increase when the relief takes over. I’d rather take the pay cut and leave the rotation alone. Hoping a new job comes along fast.[/QUOTE]
Your employee union goes along with this?? I’d vote them out !
[QUOTE=tengineer1;176575]Practically what does this mean? Demotion to relief status? If everyone is working on 28 and off 14 who gets demoted and how are the demoted ones chosen? It is rather confusing.[/QUOTE]
Usually those boats are still in the 28/14 mindset where it’s “his boat” and the other master is his “relief” even though they work equal time. That makes the decision of who gets “demoted” easy because one of the two masters is already considered the relief. Where it gets tricky is which Chief Mate gets demoted and which stays on as “3rd captain”.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;176583]Usually those boats are still in the 28/14 mindset where it’s “his boat” and the other master is his “relief” even though they work equal time. That makes the decision of who gets “demoted” easy because one of the two masters is already considered the relief. Where it gets tricky is which Chief Mate gets demoted and which stays on as “3rd captain”.[/QUOTE]
But the 28/14 still makes no sense financially. If the company has to pay a captain what do they gain by making them work 28/14? Pay is the same for any captain except for whatever difference there may be in longevity pay assuming that is still around. Also if they pay for travel, which is normal ,they will be paying for another trip also.
Chief Mate ??
[QUOTE=tengineer1;176586]But the 28/14 still makes no sense financially. If the company has to pay a captain what do they gain by making them work 28/14? Pay is the same for any captain except for whatever difference there may be in longevity pay assuming that is still around. Also if they pay for travel, which is normal ,they will be paying for another trip also.[/QUOTE]
Not sure I understand correctly but I believe you’re saying 28/14 is just as expensive as 28/28. If so, then you are incorrect. If we use a 100T vessel as an example, there are 2 officers onboard at any time working 12 hr watches. With a 28/14 rotation this only requires 3 licenses officers, in a rotation, to make things work. With 28/28 it takes 4 licensed officers. That’s an extra man that has insurance benefits, payroll taxes, etc… it may not seem like much but its a few thousand dollars/month.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;176583]Usually those boats are still in the 28/14 mindset where it’s “his boat” and the other master is his “relief” even though they work equal time. That makes the decision of who gets “demoted” easy because one of the two masters is already considered the relief. Where it gets tricky is which Chief Mate gets demoted and which stays on as “3rd captain”.[/QUOTE]
3rd Captain??? LOl
BTW, I know what you meant in your post. Don’t take offense to my jokes.
Plus cost company more on 28/28 because of downtime insurance cost to company for at home people. Less productivity with same benefits.
2nd Captain, 3rd Captain…it’s a weird system that raises eyebrows in any conversation outside of the OSV world. I guess “Mate” didn’t sound important enough. As for the 28/14 - this sucks! I’m within full day’s drive but several live west coast, PR or up north. One late crew change due to operational needs and it could be a potential 32/10. The admiral (wife) won’t be too wild about that!
[QUOTE=salt’n steel;176640]2nd Captain, 3rd Captain…it’s a weird system that raises eyebrows in any conversation outside of the OSV world. I guess “Mate” didn’t sound important enough.[/QUOTE]
I’ll tell you what that BULLSHIT is all about and that it is the same smoke Joe Bawss blows up his mariners ASSES in his transparent attempt to make them believe they are somehow important and valuable to the owner. It is the same as the “it is men like you who make this company the success it is” and “we couldn’t be where we are today without you” verbal DIARRHEA that the OSV personnel paid liars are all trained to say over and over to every MORON who laps that CRAP up! If everyone aboard is “captain” then everyone must be important! If they know you feel important, then the boss knows he can give you a turn on a bun and the FOOLS will EAT IT!
Come on…how many have NOT heard either of those baldfaced LIES from the boss when you go to the office or when the boss comes to the boat to fire the malcontents?