Civilian Sailor Vs. Navy - I have to make a choice

Professional Mariner Forum
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I’m 30-something inexperienced hawsepiper. After many months of not being able to find work, I started looking into joining the Navy. If I join, I will barely make their age limit, so it’s my only chance to do it.

While in the enlistment process, I got a call from what is probably my #1 choice of all the companies I applied to. I was never in my life open to joining the military but since I’ve looked into it (and because job opportunities have been so scarce) it’s looking pretty attractive. Skills training, being able to pick my work, exercise, job security, money for school. The low pay isn’t so bad since I have no family obligations or bills to pay except for a few thousand of college loans to pay off.

If I take the civilian side job, I’ll be able to make $10,000 of pure savings in 6 months, which will be nice because I’m completely broke. But I’ll just be doing pure labor and customer service. I suspect that’s all I’ll be doing for a while. I’ll get to go to some cool places (without ever getting off the boat), but the work will be grueling. I know I’ll be doing plenty of painting and cleaning in the Navy, too, but I’ll also have the duties pertaining to my main job/rating. I’m fine with hard work, but I need a mental challenge or to be able to learn skills, too. And if I don’t get a 2nd job relatively soon after, that money won’t last long.

Anyway, to over-simplify it, it seems to me there’s money (maybe) and freedom on one side, and education and security on the other. I know there’s more to it than that though. Can y’all give me more perspective?

To be clear, the whole point of me becoming a sailor is to travel internationally. Whether it’s with cruises, yachts, sealift command or whatever. I hope I’ll get a better idea of what specific path I prefer once I get some experience. That is, if I don’t go Navy.

So, since everybody around here is on the civilian side, why shouldn’t I go into the Navy? Or to the guys who have experience in both the military and civilian side, what are the pros/cons that I should be considering?

2

Why don’t you join the reserves. You will go to Boot Camp and then your school. You will do your one weekend a month and 2 weeks active duty. That way you will have some training and some monthly income. If you have a degree then go for a commission. What about the Army, they have more boats then the Navy. You could go for the Warrant Officer program and end up with your 1600 ton or maybe even higher.

3

My cousin, a former Army recruiter, spent years trying to get me to do just that. It sounds like the army has a hard time getting people with boat and ship experience. Everyone with seatime goes Navy, CG or stays in the merchant fleet. If I felt younger I would have jumped at it.

If you go Navy you end up on a big ship likely not doing or learning anything that has to do with seamanship.

Talk to an Army recruiter. Be specific about your sea experience. See what he has to offer.

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[QUOTE=skycowboy;52729]Why don’t you join the reserves. You will go to Boot Camp and then your school. You will do your one weekend a month and 2 weeks active duty. That way you will have some training and some monthly income. If you have a degree then go for a commission. What about the Army, they have more boats then the Navy. You could go for the Warrant Officer program and end up with your 1600 ton or maybe even higher.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, good suggestions. I’ll talk to someone about the reserves. It looks like there’s options where you can substitute weekend service with a single extended service period each year. I don’t know how easy that will be to swing. I just don’t want to be anchored to a standard shore job in between my weekend reserves duties. I want to be out there, moving.

I talked to the Army, too. I considered the the Watercraft Engineer and Operator MOS’s. But what I really wanted was to be an Army Diver (I’m too old to be a Navy Diver), but really didn’t have interest in either being stationed in Virginia (a few get to go to Hawaii but it’s rare) or serving a year in Kuwait or Iraq or the like. Who knows, I may still do it though.

I do have a college degree, but from what I saw, you still have to serve several years and be at least an E-5 to be a Warrant Officer for the Watercraft MOS. I haven’t researched it too hard yet, so I may be wrong.

5

merchant service is the way to go.

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[QUOTE=richard8000milesaway;52744]merchant service is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

Okay. Why?

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In the merchant fleet YOU decide (mostly), in the Navy someone else decides … Everything.

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88 K is army boat series I think… Met a few guys who did the army boat thing and came out with 1600 ton masters, as the army doesn’t get all the exemptions that the navy does… Thusly they need mmds and mmcs…
If you are in pacnorwest there is an army reserve boat unit in Tacoma… Otherwise army boat guys either go to no’folk or Hawaii… On active duty that is…
Army age limit was 40 to join last time I looked. Navy is 35. Take the civie job, start talking to an army recruiter…
I was in navy for 4 years, got out in 2006, started at a maritime academy in 2008 after working corrections to save some $$$, and just got my 3rd oceans unlimited this past may…
If I had to do it again would’ve done the army boat deal from the onset…

9

Hee Haw, what job segment interests you, Engineering or Deck skills?

Joining the Navy was one of the smartest thing I ever did, but a large variable in the successful equation is that I did the full bit and enjoy that benefits that come with that. A 4 year hitch would be a great enabeling experience for a youngster but could be a road block for someone in their mid 30s; you get discharged at 40ish and then try starting a civilian career. Doable at 40 but not easier. Now if you join and you do the full bit, you could retire before 55, (caveat: lately one of DOD’s and congress’ favorite things to cut when doing budget reductions are retiree benefits)

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[QUOTE=DeckApe;52730]If you go Navy you end up on a big ship likely not doing or learning anything that has to do with seamanship.[/QUOTE]

Huh?!? You’ll learn it if you become a Deck Ape!

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[QUOTE=Jeffrox;52752]Hee Haw, what job segment interests you, Engineering or Deck skills?

Joining the Navy was one of the smartest thing I ever did, but a large variable in the successful equation is that I did the full bit and enjoy that benefits that come with that. A 4 year hitch would be a great enabeling experience for a youngster but could be a road block for someone in their mid 30s; you get discharged at 40ish and then try starting a civilian career. Doable at 40 but not easier. Now if you join and you do the full bit, you could retire before 55, (caveat: lately one of DOD’s and congress’ favorite things to cut when doing budget reductions are retiree benefits)[/QUOTE]

I know Engine is supposed to be more employable, but being stuffed inside inside a loud engine room all day doesn’t appeal to me. I like the sun and the elements. On the other hand, I like mechanics, learning how things work, problem solving, etc. I just wish I didn’t have to make an either/or decision right away and get some experience of both first, then pick my path. I already know I like cooking, but I’ve never worked as one or had training, so I doubt I’d have a Stew opportunity. Actually, I figured that getting a job cooking would just take all the fun out of it.

With the Navy, I assumed it wouldn’t be such a big deal transitioning to civilian life. I’ll have had a job and training for all those years which I can use to get a job if I need to, or more likely, use the GI Bill and just go to school for a while. Some guys get their college done while their serving, too. I definitely don’t see myself doing more than 4.

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You will not like the engine room. If you have any doubt about being down there, you wont enjoy it. You may like the problem solving at first, but if you like the sun, then being down below will get old quickly. I get a lot of guys who try the ER and quit after one trip because it’s just not for them. It’s loud, stinky, dirty, and very hot…Personally I wouldn’t have it any other way.

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Loud, Dirty and Very Hot,

Three qualities I look for in a woman

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This image shows civ vs military.

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Do not join the Navy for any other reason than you want to serve. They will get more out of you than you get out of them, that’s the way it works. That being said the pay is not that bad and some Rates get great bonuses. My father is retired Navy my brother and I are both former Marines. I know both sides. If you are after money and a career go Merchant Marine no question about it. If you like the stability of the military try CIVMAR with MSC. That will give you a good taste, if it’s for you great…if not you can quit…that’s the difference between civilian and enlisting. If you do go Navy and want your best bet to transition to Merchant Marine after, make sure your Rate is QM or BM. My pick would be QM. QM’s are navigators, BM’s are Deck Apes.

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[QUOTE=kfj;52783]This image shows civ vs military.

http://tugster.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/0aaaamp2.jpg[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmphh…ECO tug, Mayport or San Diego I would guess. Yep that’s about right… 8 guy’s on the Navy ship and 1 on the Tug. Looks like a first flight FFG…over 400’ long, crew complement over 200, similar sized civilian ship crew size 25. Though civilian ships don’t have to worry too much about damage control…

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[QUOTE=Diesel;52788]Though civilian ships don’t have to worry too much about damage control…[/QUOTE]

That all depends on who is driving…

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[QUOTE=RASKP06;52794]That all depends on who is driving…[/QUOTE]

True…LOL

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Its mayport

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HeeHaw it sounds like you have no idea what you really want to do. You said that you have not researched it too hard. Sounds like maybe you wanted everyone here to make your decision for you. Maybe…you should get started on that research.