A Höegh car carrier is at a 45 degree list tonight after running aground on the Brambles sandbar off Southhampton, latest update here: http://gcaptain.com/hoegh-osaka-car-carrier-runs-aground-in-the-solent-evacuation-in-progress/
in this day of so many instantaneous electronic aids to the officer on watch does a ship end up stranded on a well marked shoal? it simply boggles the mind!
[QUOTE=c.captain;150886]in this day of so many instantaneous electronic aids to the officer on watch does a ship end up stranded on a well marked shoal? it simply boggles the mind![/QUOTE]
Speculating here, but I read they were outbound for Germany. I kind of wonder if it happened while disembarking the pilot and maybe the ship deviated from its passage plan while making a lea for the pilot boat? I’ve been into Southampton, but I don’t specifically remember where that sandbar is located in relation to the pilot boarding area. This one will, undoubtably, make for an interesting marine casualty investigation report.
[QUOTE=c.captain;150886]in this day of so many instantaneous electronic aids to the officer on watch does a ship end up stranded on a well marked shoal? it simply boggles the mind![/QUOTE]
That’s what happens when you replace Eastern European Officers and Filipino Crew with top to bottom Chinese.
[QUOTE=Polaris;150892]That’s what happens when you replace Eastern European Officers and Filipino Crew with top to bottom Chinese.[/QUOTE]
A. How do you know that the entire crew was Chinese?
B. What’s wrong with a Chinese crew and what makes you think that Hoegh would accept a sub-standard crew? Hoegh Osaka was Singaporean flagged. Some standards there.
C. What makes you think that an East European & a Filipino crew is all that and there? I"ve experienced both and what makes them predominant are numbers. Does not mean that they’re more experienced. Bulk Jupiter’s crew was all Filipino. Yet, they chose to ignore the historical problems of loading Ni & Bauxite ore from Indonesia & sank.
Stop looking at nationality. US mariners have made mistakes too.
No issue with Chinese crews here, usually more of a language barrier than others but equally good seamen as anywhere else in my book. Look at all those cosco ships running around the world @40’ keeping a schedule.
[QUOTE=smoker;150896]A. How do you know that the entire crew was Chinese?
B. What’s wrong with a Chinese crew and what makes you think that Hoegh would accept a sub-standard crew? Hoegh Osaka was Singaporean flagged. Some standards there.
C. What makes you think that an East European & a Filipino crew is all that and there? I"ve experienced both and what makes them predominant are numbers. Does not mean that they’re more experienced. Bulk Jupiter’s crew was all Filipino. Yet, they chose to ignore the historical problems of loading Ni & Bauxite ore from Indonesia & sank.
Stop looking at nationality. US mariners have made mistakes too.[/QUOTE]
Höegh has been replacing their crews over the past 4 months with Chinese nationals. I hate to tell you the registry of the ship has little to do with crew nationality, example is Wellienus Lines has NIS flagged shipped and in 2014 got rid of 99% of their Norweigen officers (a few old captains remain but they will retire this year) and replaced them with Filipinos and Indians. Never said Eastern Eurpeans and Filipinos were all that. The Chinese officers and crews I’ve experienced are less than impressive.
Also never said US Mariners are that great, they are average.
Stop looking at Nationality? Serious? Try spending time sailing with foreign nationals and you’ll see the differences.
[QUOTE=Polaris;150892]That’s what happens when you replace Eastern European Officers and Filipino Crew with top to bottom Chinese.[/QUOTE]
About a dozen years ago or so, Hoegh began bringing Chinese seafarers into their fleet. They had gone from Norwegians to Polish to Philipino to Chinese. For sure there were issues at first, mostly just the language barrier, but the men were competent enough to do their jobs. Wonder how many times this crew on this ship has made that same voyage (certain they are on a liner run) and for whatever reason something changed last night. Hopefully she does not end up like her predecessor, the HUAL Europe.
[QUOTE=The Commodore;150914]About a dozen years ago or so, Hoegh began bringing Chinese seafarers into their fleet. They had gone from Norwegians to Polish to Philipino to Chinese. For sure there were issues at first, mostly just the language barrier, but the men were competent enough to do their jobs. Wonder how many times this crew on this ship has made that same voyage (certain they are on a liner run) and for whatever reason something changed last night. Hopefully she does not end up like her predecessor, the HUAL Europe.[/QUOTE]
Höegh has been carrying mixed crews for years,(everyonce in awhile you’d even have a Japanese Captain) recently they have been on a move to repace crews with Chinese. I like how you say competent enough, it’s obvious that you have some misgivings about Chinese crews.
[QUOTE=Polaris;150915]I like how you say competent enough, it’s obvious that you have some misgivings about Chinese crews.[/QUOTE]
Agree with you that nationality does not necessarily dictate how great a sailor someone will be, regardless of national history. I too would love to think Americans are the best, but I have experienced the full spectrum and have had many less than impressive encounters pnboard various vessels. Although I will honestly say there are a few Philippinos I truly miss working with, they were good sailors and did not bring the drama I see today.
[QUOTE=smoker;150917]Chinese crew and all … http://mkkdok.utu.fi/pub/A64-impact%20of%20crews%20on%20safety.pdf[/QUOTE]
If you’re going to post a study I suggedt you actually read it. I’d recommend reading page 35.
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[QUOTE=The Commodore;150918]Agree with you that nationality does not necessarily dictate how great a sailor someone will be, regardless of national history. I too would love to think Americans are the best, but I have experienced the full spectrum and have had many less than impressive encounters pnboard various vessels. Although I will honestly say there are a few Philippinos I truly miss working with, they were good sailors and did not bring the drama I see today.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that nationality does not necessarily dictate competency, however Chinese by and large tend to be subpar. I agree with you on US Mariners, some are good and some are bad, they tend to be average.
regardless of the nationality or competence of the officers and crew, here are photos of the HOEGH OSAKA this morning
how in the HELL did it get up there like that if it wasn’t making speed?
It sounds like a ballast problem like Cougar Ace a few years back.
Here is a Facebook pasting that has a report on it
[QUOTE=c.captain;150922]regardless of the nationality or competence of the officers and crew, here are photos of the HOEGH OSAKA this morning
how in the HELL did it get up there like that if it wasn’t making speed?[/QUOTE]
High tide in the British Isles is pretty extreme.
Höegh Autoliners’ CEO says the grounding was deliberately performed by the Master/Pilot after the ship developed a list following departure from Southampton
[QUOTE=Pilot;150929]It sounds like a ballast problem like Cougar Ace a few years back.[/QUOTE]
I hope the salvage crews tread with great care as they evaluate the situation aboard the HOEGH OSAKA, one of my friend’s coworkers was the salvage engineer that had the fatal slip and fall inspecting the Cougar Ace.
I don’t see nationality as being germain to this situation.
Back to the grounding: As I understand it, the Cougar Ace capsizing resulted from a very poorly planned ballast water exchange that resulted in negative GM. As you can see from the pics of the Hoegh car carrier, the ship is beached with a severe starboard list. However, the pilot would have had to turn to port, in order to beach the ship on a bar located in the middle of the channel (the ship was outbound for sea). If he were worried about capsizing to starboard, why then would he turn to port and in doing so, cause the ship to heel over to starboard even further? I have to imagine that both the pilot and master would have immediately suspected negative GM, not off-centered weight, when the severe list developed, as there was no mention of any loud grinding noises or significant shaking that would be associated with a grounding.
What do you guys think?
[QUOTE=Heat Miser;150938]
What do you guys think?[/QUOTE]
I think one of these we will all try to compose ourselves and get some semblance of facts before we all start pointing fingers at a situation. Time and time again we blast our seafaring family for their shortcomings when we have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.
[QUOTE=The Commodore;150940]I think one of these we will all try to compose ourselves and get some semblance of facts before we all start pointing fingers at a situation. Time and time again we blast our seafaring family for their shortcomings when we have absolutely no idea what we are talking about.[/QUOTE]
The distinction between “blasting” our seafaring “family” and discussing factors that could contribute to a marine casualty is lost on you. My posts on this topic are meant as speculation: no more, no less. As seagoing professionals, we have much to gain from discussions about seamanship, navigation, shiphandling, meteorology, stability and trim, casualty analysis, etc,. For people interested in such topics, these discussions are far more productive than the gossip, misinformation and turd slinging that seem to proliferate here.
BTW: my family is at home, they are not seafaring. Having sailed with a circus of various ass-clowns over the years, I’m not extending any special consideration to any class of workers because they happen to hold a license and work in my profession.