Captain and Mates on ATB's

After reading another thread here on ATB’s, I have a question.

When I was sailing I was very lucky to have worked with Captains and Mates that came from wire boats. Now most of these men have retired or are very close to it. One of these Captains was one of the Original I-Con Captains. This man knew the system well and could be a pain in the butt to his engineers at times but I would have sailed anywhere at anytime with him. I can not say the same about some of the other ones that I sailed with. They probably would say the same about me. LOL

So here is my question. What’s going to happen when one of these new ATB’s that have Captains and Mates that came from Ships or from other ATBs that have never had to break out of the notch in bad weather?

Back before they Double Hulled all of the barges we used to push until the weather got to bad and was shaking the hell out of us. Then we would get on the wire. I was lucky that most of the Captains were good and gave me the information that I needed to run the winch. The Captain and Me (the Chief) were always the one that were at the controls when we got in or out of the notch. Usually the Cap had the mate up watching to learn as I would do with the Assistant.

Now a days there are Captains out there that I know have never had to breakout of the notch at sea. If I was still sailing I would have to really think about sailing with some of these people. There were times were I would not even sleep while certain mates were on watch as I have had mates retract the pins instead of extending them to pump them up at sea, not real fun in 10/15 foot seas. We staying in the notch mainly because the old man stayed calm and let me do what I had to do so he could get the pins back in.

So what do you of you think about the “New” Generation of Mates come up?

If NASA can train monkeys to fly spaceships the next generation of mates and Captains should be able to figure out how to get on the EMG tow hawser if need be. Not to mention new build ATBs don’t even have tow winches. Crowley just crewed their new build 750 class ATB unit with unlimited licenses guys from the Blue Ridge and Coast Range. These guys must of at least gotten 30 days on a tug to get their towing endorsement, but I doubt any of them have ever done any towing.

I don’t agree with the notion that nearly all captains/mates from wire boats are retired or almost retired. Out here on the Left Coast at least, wire boats are alive and well. ATBs may have become the preferred method for petroleum transport, but there is still plenty of hawser towing going on, oil barges included.

This, of course doesn’t mean that you will find Captains and Mates with wire boat experience on ATBs. I do agree that crews without hawser experience may have a difficult time getting a barge in tow, especially in foul weather, and I don’t think guys with only ATB experience (or only 30 days on a hawser boat) should qualify for Master of towing (unless limited only to ATBs). I think ATB officers should be required to demonstrate their ability to get out of the notch and stream an emergency tow, winch or no winch, before they are fully licensed. Not having that requirement would be like giving someone a Master of Towing on a hawser boat who has only pushed or towed on the hip. In short, you should be qualified to preform any maneuvers your vessel may have to preform, emergency or otherwise, before being deemed qualified to operate that vessel.

[QUOTE=shamrock;66152]If NASA can train monkeys to fly spaceships the next generation of mates and Captains should be able to figure out how to get on the EMG tow hawser if need be. Not to mention new build ATBs don’t even have tow winches. Crowley just crewed their new build 750 class ATB unit with unlimited licenses guys from the Blue Ridge and Coast Range. These guys must of at least gotten 30 days on a tug to get their towing endorsement, but I doubt any of them have ever done any towing.[/QUOTE]

Most received their towing endorsement time while bringing the tug around from Washington to Pascagoula. Crowley added a Captain, Chief Mate, and 2nd mate to the crew as Towing Endorsement instructors. Those guys could definitely handle a boat.

[QUOTE=highseasmechanic;66161]Most received their towing endorsement time while bringing the tug around from Washington to Pascagoula. Crowley added a Captain, Chief Mate, and 2nd mate to the crew as Towing Endorsement instructors. Those guys could definitely handle a boat.[/QUOTE]
How do you check off a TOAR on a light tug?

[QUOTE=captfish;66157]I don’t agree with the notion that nearly all captains/mates from wire boats are retired or almost retired. Out here on the Left Coast at least, wire boats are alive and well. ATBs may have become the preferred method for petroleum transport, but there is still plenty of hawser towing going on, oil barges included.

This, of course doesn’t mean that you will find Captains and Mates with wire boat experience on ATBs. I do agree that crews without hawser experience may have a difficult time getting a barge in tow, especially in foul weather, and I don’t think guys with only ATB experience (or only 30 days on a hawser boat) should qualify for Master of towing (unless limited only to ATBs). I think ATB officers should be required to demonstrate their ability to get out of the notch and stream an emergency tow, winch or no winch, before they are fully licensed. Not having that requirement would be like giving someone a Master of Towing on a hawser boat who has only pushed or towed on the hip. In short, you should be qualified to preform any maneuvers your vessel may have to preform, emergency or otherwise, before being deemed qualified to operate that vessel.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I was mainly talking about my last company.

I agree with you about more training needed but I just do not see any company allowing a Captain to “Practice” getting out of the notch at sea. What will happen, if anything, is they will train on simulators. Now once they come out with a simulator that acts and reacts like a Tug getting the Sh*t kicked out of it and bouncing every which way, maybe someone might learn something.

The fears that I have are not only mine. I have heard the same from others still that work for the company.

[B]“I think ATB officers should be required to demonstrate their ability to get out of the notch and stream an emergency tow, winch or no winch, before they are fully licensed.”[/B]
The situation is not cut and dried.
Saying that every towing officer candidate for an ATB should demonstrate a breakout is reasonable, but to do it on an operational ATB is not being realistic. Most of us are aware that in the case of a breakout on any ATB, there will be damage and costs associated above and beyond the issue that caused the breakout that a conventional wire boat won’t have to deal with… Re-hanging the really long wire pennant, replacing railings, clips and such, all require the barge to be in shipyard and gas free. On top of that add the cost of the downtime and any damage to the tug if performed in realistic (rough) conditions (pins and such will need a full inspection since they’re gonna get slammed to hell when you pull the trigger). Multiply that by 4-6 watch-standers per rig and simulators are going to be the answer.
I’m not happy with allowing a restricted TOAR for ATB’s but it’s the only real option available as more and more conventional rigs are retired in favor of these designs. There are still plenty of fully qualified tugboat handlers in the trade and the rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated. But in the next ten years we’re mustering out at an advanced rate.
Since breakout events are rare they should be documented and shared or many won’t have a frame of reference in a few years. So far it appears every effort is being made (in my outfit) to ensure that fully qualified towing masters are chosen and placed as Masters and C/M’s on our ATB’s.

[B]Pressing up pins manually at sea?[/B]; Really? How often is this happening? With an operational (read seaworthy) system it should be automatic. Still, manually pressing up the pins on an Intercon system is laid out in a short instruction sheet provided by the manufacturer. I’ve tried the procedure and it works but the problem is the exposure you have while you’re doing it. The locks have to be released on the side you’re pressing up when it rolls and eases pressure on the load cell, and then reset once the pressure has been added. It’s not something I’ve done frequently and the timing is tricky. See [ATTACH]1860[/ATTACH]
The panels used to allow for centering the tug after the pins were extended, Intercon removed that function because (I was told) there were guys centering the tug while underway. That should’ve been done at the dock. Instead they were releasing the locks and centering the tug and then resetting their locks. According to Intercon, a bad idea.

Captbbrucato,

Most of the rigs that I worked on were first I-Con Rigs and Maritrans for some unknown reason did not what the automatic controls. So while at sea, depending on the sea state, the system would need to be pressed up. I usually tried to do it at watch change but some times could not due to the pressure already being within the set range.

As someone with a strong background in Automation, I would have loved to have the Automated System, even Otto hated the control system that we had.

You should have seen the First System on the Intrepid. I forget the actual number of air control vavles but they were mounted on a 4’ x 5’ plate on the bulkhead. Boy was that fun the trouble shoot. LOL

This response is surely the result of NOT knowing all the conditions encountered out there. It is all well and good to assume. But 30 days don’t cut it!

I have yet to see an actual simulator that even closely mimicks real life sea, swell, tug and barge motion (and the difference between the two) anticipation and avoidance that is ONLY learned by OTJT.

[QUOTE=cappy208;66220]This response is surely the result of NOT knowing all the conditions encountered out there. It is all well and good to assume. But 30 days don’t cut it!

I have yet to see an actual simulator that even closely mimicks real life sea, swell, tug and barge motion (and the difference between the two) anticipation and avoidance that is ONLY learned by OTJT.[/QUOTE]

Well said Cappy.

[QUOTE=captbbrucato;66182][B]“I think ATB officers should be required to demonstrate their ability to get out of the notch and stream an emergency tow, winch or no winch, before they are fully licensed.”[/B]
The situation is not cut and dried.
Saying that every towing officer candidate for an ATB should demonstrate a breakout is reasonable, but to do it on an operational ATB is not being realistic. Most of us are aware that in the case of a breakout on any ATB, there will be damage and costs associated above and beyond the issue that caused the breakout that a conventional wire boat won’t have to deal with… Re-hanging the really long wire pennant, replacing railings, clips and such, all require the barge to be in shipyard and gas free. On top of that add the cost of the downtime and any damage to the tug if performed in realistic (rough) conditions (pins and such will need a full inspection since they’re gonna get slammed to hell when you pull the trigger). Multiply that by 4-6 watch-standers per rig and simulators are going to be the answer.
I’m not happy with allowing a restricted TOAR for ATB’s but it’s the only real option available as more and more conventional rigs are retired in favor of these designs. There are still plenty of fully qualified tugboat handlers in the trade and the rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated. But in the next ten years we’re mustering out at an advanced rate.
Since breakout events are rare they should be documented and shared or many won’t have a frame of reference in a few years. So far it appears every effort is being made (in my outfit) to ensure that fully qualified towing masters are chosen and placed as Masters and C/M’s on our ATB’s.

[B]Pressing up pins manually at sea?[/B]; Really? How often is this happening? With an operational (read seaworthy) system it should be automatic. Still, manually pressing up the pins on an Intercon system is laid out in a short instruction sheet provided by the manufacturer. I’ve tried the procedure and it works but the problem is the exposure you have while you’re doing it. The locks have to be released on the side you’re pressing up when it rolls and eases pressure on the load cell, and then reset once the pressure has been added. It’s not something I’ve done frequently and the timing is tricky. See [ATTACH]1860[/ATTACH]
The panels used to allow for centering the tug after the pins were extended, Intercon removed that function because (I was told) there were guys centering the tug while underway. That should’ve been done at the dock. Instead they were releasing the locks and centering the tug and then resetting their locks. According to Intercon, a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I slept well knowing the captains and most of the mates I sailed with had towing experience.

The manual over-ride is not that big of a deal. The lock comes off every time the system auto extends. It’s comforting to know you can keep tension on the pins if you lose lock or interupted signal from the load cell.

I have to say that I was not aware the original I-Con systems were manual. When this rig was built, it was automatic, older software, but automatic none-the-less. My first experience of the system being pressed up automatically scared the crap out of me, I should say the alarm and “knuckling sound” (best way I can describe it) was unnerving to say the least, but I got over it. The system is a good solution. I’m not so sure I’d be at all happy with any other.

[QUOTE=captbbrucato;66273]I have to say that I was not aware the original I-Con systems were manual. When this rig was built, it was automatic, older software, but automatic none-the-less. My first experience of the system being pressed up automatically scared the crap out of me, I should say the alarm and “knuckling sound” (best way I can describe it) was unnerving to say the least, but I got over it. The system is a good solution. I’m not so sure I’d be at all happy with any other.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I-Con is the only way to go. I do know what you mean about that sound. The grinding that the clutches make will make a new crew member come right out of his rack. I always know I was way too tired when I would sleep right through the night in bad weather with it pumping up every hour or so. It was worse when the bushings were shot and the pin was dancing around. Then they had to pump it up at least every 30 minutes. I have done a lot of repairs on these systems so if I can ever be of any help just ask.

Be Safe,

Jim